Nobody getting out of here.

[Returnofrros]

Furlough extended past April apparently

Tier systems continued "well into next year"

Local lockdowns every winter.

Now where have I heard that before.....oh aye, here, in August.

[BCram]

rross, if you were in charge what would you do? i understand the "freedom" aspect, I understand that with all the action that is being taken the actual rate of deaths as reported is small. i am not sure how to present this figure but 5468 deaths out of a population of 5.5m is statistically very low. 5468/5500000x100=0.0994, ie just under one tenth of 1 percent. This is a vanishingly small number and explains why the authorities have to use other numbers to try to get htei message across. I think that if we were not taking care of ourselves along the lines suggested the numbers of people catching the disease would escalate. I have never seen any statistics that show what would happen if the restrictions were lifted. Is there some study or report that supports the removal of restrictions?

Like you I worry that the current system is creating a problem that might actually be worse than covid. At present I am in the stay at home camp but I'd like to have some ideas about how we are going to get out of this situation.

[Returnofrros]

rross, if you were in charge what would you do? i understand the "freedom" aspect, I understand that with all the action that is being taken the actual rate of deaths as reported is small. i am not sure how to present this figure but 5468 deaths out of a population of 5.5m is statistically very low. 5468/5500000x100=0.0994, ie just under one tenth of 1 percent. This is a vanishingly small number and explains why the authorities have to use other numbers to try to get htei message across. I think that if we were not taking care of ourselves along the lines suggested the numbers of people catching the disease would escalate. I have never seen any statistics that show what would happen if the restrictions were lifted. Is there some study or report that supports the removal of restrictions?

Like you I worry that the current system is creating a problem that might actually be worse than covid. At present I am in the stay at home camp but I'd like to have some ideas about how we are going to get out of this situation.

Mr Hitchens answers this when asked by his critics "don't lockdown, don't do something that dosent work'"

What I wanted to do shield the I'll, the vulnerable and elderly, that ship sailed.

It's political now b cram, very political I'd say it's past the point of a health emergency and politicians are just trying to cover their tracks to justify the actions they have taken.

WHO announced again yesterday a positive pcr test should NOT be counted as a case....but we do.

I think it all pretty much boils down to how the figures are interpretated or presented.

Isla and Deeranged can speak for themselves but we have all been saying pretty much the same thing....with small differences.

Every time they have a lockdown it dosent work but they always have an excuse why it hasn't worked and have another.

Remember 3 weeks to flatten the curve to protect the NHS, the end game was never to eradicate covid....but now it appears it is, which a vaccine or 100 lockdowns will never achieve.

[BCram]

Mr Hitchens answers this when asked by his critics "don't lockdown, don't do something that dosent work'"

What I wanted to do shield the I'll, the vulnerable and elderly, that ship sailed.

It's political now b cram, very political I'd say it's past the point of a health emergency and politicians are just trying to cover their tracks to justify the actions they have taken.

WHO announced again yesterday a positive pcr test should NOT be counted as a case....but we do.

I think it all pretty much boils down to how the figures are interpretated or presented.

Isla and Deeranged can speak for themselves but we have all been saying pretty much the same thing....with small differences.

Every time they have a lockdown it dosent work but they always have an excuse why it hasn't worked and have another.

Remember 3 weeks to flatten the curve to protect the NHS, the end game was never to eradicate covid....but now it appears it is, which a vaccine or 100 lockdowns will never achieve.

Agree, that the expectations seem to change to suit whoever is speaking. Was interested to find if the Kent variant of covid 19 has been found on the continent and if there had been track and trace actions that proved that it came from Kent. I thought a virus could mutate by itself and really the Kent version was home grown so to speak and not brought to Kent

[Returnofrros]

Agree, that the expectations seem to change to suit whoever is speaking. Was interested to find if the Kent variant of covid 19 has been found on the continent and if there had been track and trace actions that proved that it came from Kent. I thought a virus could mutate by itself and really the Kent version was home grown so to speak and not brought to Kent

Just a wee add on.

Cases going up despite lockdown...but you know my and Who thoughts on how we count cases....yet they don't say "maybe lockdown is no use" ....they say......"Lockdown restrictions ain't tough enough"........It's madness.

Again have a look at Neil Oliver on talk radio yesterday......It's pretty much how I think but in a much more articulate manner.

Away for my hours exercise.😉

[BCram]

Had a look at the talk by Neil Oliver. See where you are coming from. I thought the best point he made was about the people who are in charge are not suffering because they are paid and doing an essential job, essential in the terms that they define the meaning of essential. No furlough and very quickly there would be massive civil unrest.
I think I understand your point of view a bit better.

It is interesting that there is a body of opinion that does not believe covid can be killed outright and that this is the best reason for a plan that does not rely on lockdowns.

I also watched a follow on broadcast by someone called Tucker on Fox TV. I was amazed at his approach. Trump is gone, Democrats won, democracy won so the Democratic Party should shut up about Trump and demonising his 79m supporters and start trying to build bridges. I thought that was basically what Biden said during his inaugural speech so it was disappointing for the rest of his show, to have so many examples of Democrats shouting about Republican terrorism etc. It does seem as though the media need to be encouraged to adopt a non partisan approach.

Never listen to any news programmes other than BBC and STV. Think I will have to give them a break and stick to The Courier!

[Returnofrros]

Had a look at the talk by Neil Oliver. See where you are coming from. I thought the best point he made was about the people who are in charge are not suffering because they are paid and doing an essential job, essential in the terms that they define the meaning of essential. No furlough and very quickly there would be massive civil unrest.
I think I understand your point of view a bit better.

It is interesting that there is a body of opinion that does not believe covid can be killed outright and that this is the best reason for a plan that does not rely on lockdowns.

I also watched a follow on broadcast by someone called Tucker on Fox TV. I was amazed at his approach. Trump is gone, Democrats won, democracy won so the Democratic Party should shut up about Trump and demonising his 79m supporters and start trying to build bridges. I thought that was basically what Biden said during his inaugural speech so it was disappointing for the rest of his show, to have so many examples of Democrats shouting about Republican terrorism etc. It does seem as though the media need to be encouraged to adopt a non partisan approach.

Never listen to any news programmes other than BBC and STV. Think I will have to give them a break and stick to The Courier!

Cheers, Oliver is really good and passionate without pointing fingers although he is disliked by a number of the SNP.

I find talk radio really fare and balanced, no politician gets a free ride.

9am to back of 11 it's pretty pretty pretty guid.

The BBC is only there to fleg auld folk and the courier has never been the same since the "when the equaliser came there was a roar to split the night sky asunder" (TC equaliser lc quarter final) line.

Last time Biden was in power the USA dropped 28000 bombs on 5 different countries, Trump dropped 0......No that you would see that on CNN, maybe Fox.

Neil Oliver is on 11 am every Tues on talk.

Mr Hitchens is on 11 am every Monday.

Always worth a listen.

[BCram]

Thanks Rross. That was one point made by Tucker, statements made calling blue collar Republicans traitors or anarchists are never ever criticised by the caring left of centre politicians. You can call a Trump supporter anything you want but that Trump supporter can't object to the names you are called. It's like a questioning approach to the way our country is dealing with the covid virus. Covid denier is trotted out so often when in fact it might be helpful to get an answer.

[Biffo_the_Bear]

Rros this is no a pop at you as I can see some of your points regarding lockdown but I would say ultimately I don’t agree with most, but you rightly say cases are going up despite lockdown and that lockdown doesn’t work but would that not suggest that this is very infectious and if we didn’t have lockdown this would be a lot worse than it is now and if you don’t think that would be the case what would you or what do the folk you quote on here suggest should be done instead of what’s happening now

[BCram]

Rros this is no a pop at you as I can see some of your points regarding lockdown but I would say ultimately I don’t agree with most, but you rightly say cases are going up despite lockdown and that lockdown doesn’t work but would that not suggest that this is very infectious and if we didn’t have lockdown this would be a lot worse than it is now and if you don’t think that would be the case what would you or what do the folk you quote on here suggest should be done instead of what’s happening now

Think that's the core of the discussion. What alternative approach is there? It is especially frustrating when you see Wuhan on the TV apparently back at work as though nothing has happened, and the episode is being described as a great victory over a polague that was brought in from Australia etc! (BBC News was the source)