Every day the vaccine rolls out

[VanDerHoorn]

I think it's wrong to be talking about an underclass, however, where I live, 74% of covid patients in intensive care are completely unvaccinated. I know there is no context to go with this figure, but it's hard not see that as putting unnecessary strain on the NHS.

If that figure is true (not doubting you but the data is being so muddied and misrepresented throughout this it can be difficult to know) then that would be a good and logical counter argument.

[VanDerHoorn]

I don't think it matters if goalposts are changed (and even then I'm not entirely sure what you've said about the original reasons are accurate) as long as there are good reasons for it.

Ultimately I'm speculating as to the reasons but I think there is logic in what I've suggested. I'm afraid I can't believe so many countries around the world are restricting the civil liberties of their citizens just for the sake of it. Politically, what would be the point?

You obviously have great trust in politicians and in human nature.

Hopefully you are right.

Personally I think that panic, groupthink and virtue signalling have been as infectious during this pandemic as the virus itself has been.

[arab777]

You obviously have great trust in politicians and in human nature.

Hopefully you are right.

Personally I think that panic, groupthink and virtue signalling have been as infectious during this pandemic as the virus itself has been.

Now you are just doing word salads.

'medical apartheid'
'group think'
'virtue signalling'

probably says more about your internet browsing history than any facts about COVID.

[VanDerHoorn]

Now you are just doing word salads.

'medical apartheid'
'group think'
'virtue signalling'

probably says more about your internet browsing history than any facts about COVID.

What a great counter argument.

Maybe a dictionary would help, or a history book.

[arab777]

What a great counter argument.

Maybe a dictionary would help.

I am not sure what a dictionary has anything to do with this. I am very familiar with these phrases. The virtue signalling one is a dead giveaway. Are you saying people are being vaccinated to show some kind of virtue rather than do it as part of protecting the community? And when you say things like medical apartheid it doesn't help the credibility of your argument. You just begin to sound like one of these deranged anti vaxxers parroting the use hyperbolic language.

[VanDerHoorn]

I am not sure what a dictionary has anything to do with this. I am very familiar with these phrases. The virtue signalling one is a dead giveaway. Are you saying people are being vaccinated to show some kind of virtue rather than do it as part of protecting the community? And when you say things like medical apartheid it doesn't help the credibility of your argument. You just begin to sound like one of these deranged anti vaxxers parroting the use hyperbolic language.

Labelling anyone as a ‘deranged anti-vaxxer’ is hyperbolic, devisive, unhelpful, and is perhaps more of a ‘dead giveaway’ of a fixed worldview as anything I’ve written,

Are you saying that everyone is getting vaccinated for the same reason - to protect their community?

Amongst people I know there are people who have been vaccinated for that reason but others who have done it out of panic, peer pressure, self preservation and even some who appear to view themselves as somehow morally superior for having been vaccinated.

So there you have panic, groupthink and virtue signalling all in one. But my response to TTT was about politicians. I would say it is patently obvious that these factors have largely driven political responses but feel free to disagree.

Medical apartheid is a description of treating people differently based on a medical characteristic - in this case their vaccination status. If you think that is not happening try asking the people who have been barred from e.g. fertility treatments based on this factor.

Maybe this will be as far as it goes and it will be nothing more than a minor insult to people’s freedoms, Hopefully it will.

[Chick A Saw]

If that figure is true (not doubting you but the data is being so muddied and misrepresented throughout this it can be difficult to know) then that would be a good and logical counter argument.

Not sure how far you have looked back in this thread, but it was mentioned at the start of the thread that TTT sabotaged and at various points throughout that the hospitalization figures are indeed muddied. I wouldnt even think where to find the data that could be used to sort that out, but when excess death were at the levels they were through the beginning of this damn virus, Covid was the cause of this whatever our opinions are.

I agree with you about your stance on the possibility of creating an unvaccinated underclass, but while i accept everyone has the right of choice, i really cannot understand why someone doesnt go for the vaccine, and i really do not see what the problem is with showing a vaccine passport if you want to get into an event.

[tHeArAb]

'the thread that TTT sabotaged'..... 😂😂😂

[arab777]

Labelling anyone as a ‘deranged anti-vaxxer’ is hyperbolic, devisive, unhelpful, and is perhaps more of a ‘dead giveaway’ of a fixed worldview as anything I’ve written,

Are you saying that everyone is getting vaccinated for the same reason - to protect their community?

Amongst people I know there are people who have been vaccinated for that reason but others who have done it out of panic, peer pressure, self preservation and even some who appear to view themselves as somehow morally superior for having been vaccinated.

So there you have panic, groupthink and virtue signalling all in one. But my response to TTT was about politicians. I would say it is patently obvious that these factors have largely driven political responses but feel free to disagree.

Medical apartheid is a description of treating people differently based on a medical characteristic - in this case their vaccination status. If you think that is not happening try asking the people who have been barred from e.g. fertility treatments based on this factor.

Maybe this will be as far as it goes and it will be nothing more than a minor insult to people’s freedoms, Hopefully it will.

You want to have your cake and eat it. Use hyperbolic language then get offended when labels are applied to anti vaxxers. Note I didn't call you a deranged anti vaxxer I said by using phrases such as medical apartheid makes you sound like one. Your continued defensiveness of any criticism of anti vaxxers is noted.

I will repeat, apart from small number of people who cant for medical reasons, people who aren't vaccinated have opted for this. Its not discrimination, medical apartheid etc for someone who has chosen not to be vaccinated being excluded temporarily from some public activities in the middle of a pandemic.

There is thin line between arguing philosophically for individual freedom (in matters of public health) and just being a sociopath.

[TerryTheTerror]

You obviously have great trust in politicians and in human nature.

Hopefully you are right.

Personally I think that panic, groupthink and virtue signalling have been as infectious during this pandemic as the virus itself has been.

Your haven't really answered my question about what you think politicians would get out of restricting civic freedoms?