Angus

[WTF11]

Thats my take on the situation as well. Boris and his cronies will take full advantage of the situation.

Would you or LeedsUtdman care to say just how "full advantage" will be taken? It's easy to make broad accusations, would like to know what your concerns are in a bit more detail. Not saying I would disagree or otherwise, can't do either with what you have both said so far.

[leedsutdman]

Would you or LeedsUtdman care to say just how "full advantage" will be taken? It's easy to make broad accusations, would like to know what your concerns are in a bit more detail. Not saying I would disagree or otherwise, can't do either with what you have both said so far.

I bit like religion I would say, where a belief or fear keeps people controlled to certain degrees as and when it's needed. When would a politician not take advantage of an event that they didn't have control of from the start but then work it in their favour later. No more than that really.

[alfinyalcabo]

For a start it will affect people who dont want to have the vaccine jab and put them at a disadvantage .. If this comes in then in most cases theatres,music venues,nightclubs will be demanding to see the passports. Same for travel abroad.

If if the government are contradicting themselves by saying the vaccine is optional ,then hadicapping people by saying if you don't gave it then you won't get a passport.

How would you like it if when football returns they said to you that you can't come in because you haven't got a vaccine passport I can see that actually happening in the near future..

[WTF11]

I bit like religion I would say, where a belief or fear keeps people controlled to certain degrees as and when it's needed. When would a politician not take advantage of an event that they didn't have control of from the start but then work it in their favour later. No more than that really.

Again, what does that mean "take advantage", in what way?

I'm no fan of politicians, of any colour or in any part of the world, they have managed (or mismanaged) to f00k us all repeatedly and with no apparent sanction apart from losing their seats in government occasionally. However I fear them less than I fear those who have successfully manipulated us all (politicians included), for decades, and who have more recently managed to infect us all with the disease of FOMO, of having to be online, contactable, our young people unknowingly coerced into being willing and able to be "influenced" in more or less every aspect of how they live, work, consume, socialise. We carry round with us, all the time, devices that allow tracking, monitoring of what we buy, eat, drink, who we go to see, our tastes in all manner of things. And they have never sought political status, because they have no need, they simply offer us what they have convinced us we need. THAY are the ones to be afraid of, and they won't be the ones to suggest Covid passports, because any "barrier to entry" to consuming what they have to offer is bad news (e.g. you think the drinks industry, (worth £45bn is 2018) is keen on current lockdown, or the need to present a Covid passport when pubs re-open, think again!).

Have your conspiracy theories, some may be heading in the right direction, but from politicians? Nah, none are clever enough and none are around long enough, you need both to be effective.

[leedsutdman]

Again, what does that mean "take advantage", in what way?

I'm no fan of politicians, of any colour or in any part of the world, they have managed (or mismanaged) to f00k us all repeatedly and with no apparent sanction apart from losing their seats in government occasionally. However I fear them less than I fear those who have successfully manipulated us all (politicians included), for decades, and who have more recently managed to infect us all with the disease of FOMO, of having to be online, contactable, our young people unknowingly coerced into being willing and able to be "influenced" in more or less every aspect of how they live, work, consume, socialise. We carry round with us, all the time, devices that allow tracking, monitoring of what we buy, eat, drink, who we go to see, our tastes in all manner of things. And they have never sought political status, because they have no need, they simply offer us what they have convinced us we need. THAY are the ones to be afraid of, and they won't be the ones to suggest Covid passports, because any "barrier to entry" to consuming what they have to offer is bad news (e.g. you think the drinks industry, (worth £45bn is 2018) is keen on current lockdown, or the need to present a Covid passport when pubs re-open, think again!).

Have your conspiracy theories, some may be heading in the right direction, but from politicians? Nah, none are clever enough and none are around long enough, you need both to be effective.

I don't have any conspiracy theories if I'm honest, I just feel something isn't right, there has been far to many questions raised by the way this has been handled (omittably badly) for me personally to say I'm having the vaccine to go on holiday or go to the pub I would want it because I need it. Let's wait for things to settle down and see what comes to light. That's just my take on it and my heels are dug in I'm afraid. Each to their own views I suppose.

[WTF11]

For a start it will affect people who dont want to have the vaccine jab and put them at a disadvantage .. If this comes in then in most cases theatres,music venues,nightclubs will be demanding to see the passports. Same for travel abroad.

If if the government are contradicting themselves by saying the vaccine is optional ,then hadicapping people by saying if you don't gave it then you won't get a passport.

How would you like it if when football returns they said to you that you can't come in because you haven't got a vaccine passport I can see that actually happening in the near future..

And if all those venues wish to see a covid passport, because doing so provides them with greater assurance that they won't be spreading the virus (in actuality or by implication), what exactly is wrong with that? How is that in an real sense different to insisting on the wearing of masks (much more visible and obvious) or social distancing? and as for your question about me being refused entry, that won't happen, because in about 12 weeks I'll have my second jab, and if there is a need to get a covid passport to do things that I regard as "normal", like going to ER to watch mighty Leeds, you bet your 6-fingered life I'll get one!

And as an example of what you might think of as justified, what if newly employed staff in care homes decide not to have a vaccination, would you send your elderly relative there, or to another home where all the staff have been vaccinated?

(Those already working in care homes can't have their Ts & Cs altered to make vaccination mandatory, but new ones probably will. and even then they will probably be moved to roles that don't involve direct contact with residents, something they may not relish, but couldn't avoid).

We're never going back to "normal" as we knew it, that much I would agree with BB, but if we ever want to have some degree of normality at all, there will be some changes required. At least they will be here, If you take France you have to have (and carry) an identity card, similarly in Germany you HAVE at least to have one, and the police are not obliged to accept alternatives (even if they mostly do), in the Netherlands identity cards are an accepted alternative to passport or driving license, so in those countries a covid passport probably wont be regarded as a big deal, why here?

[spaldy]

the politicians don't have to be smart. They just have to willing to do whatever they are told and to check their morals at the door by whoever is doing the controlling.

It's one thing that unites the world. all politicians are more than willing to check their morals at the door. the old quote... "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" applies to them all if they stay long enough in power.

[WTF11]

I don't have any conspiracy theories if I'm honest, I just feel something isn't right, there has been far to many questions raised by the way this has been handled (omittably badly) for me personally to say I'm having the vaccine to go on holiday or go to the pub I would want it because I need it. Let's wait for things to settle down and see what comes to light. That's just my take on it and my heels are dug in I'm afraid. Each to their own views I suppose.

Sorry, I don't wish to appear either argumentative or thick (I can be both!) but what do you mean by "something isn't right"? With the way the vaccines have been developed, tested, approved? It's be super rapid, for sure, but when everything else is set aside and there is ONLY one priority, develop a Covid vaccine, then good things can happen, and the vaccines have been subject to regulatory regimes right round the globe, not just here. As for "need", that will always be down to personal perspective, but as one who said from the outset that herd immunity was what was required, I'd a be pretty f00king hypocritical if I said no to the vaccine (not that I was ever tempted to do so) as that's the one way that immunity for the herd (i.e all of us) can be achieved without exposing more folks to the virus.

Waiting for things to "settle down" without the vaccination programme achieving the aim of more or less total immunisation is just a recipe for more peaks and troughs, and more lockdowns, not acceptable given what its already done to us all.

you keep your heels dug in if you wish (one stubborn b4stard amongst us all won't make much difference )

[WTF11]

the politicians don't have to be smart. They just have to willing to do whatever they are told and to check their morals at the door by whoever is doing the controlling.

It's one thing that unites the world. all politicians are more than willing to check their morals at the door. the old quote... "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" applies to them all if they stay long enough in power.

Which is why, unlike here in the UK, you have a written constitution that limits the number of terms a President can serve.

I stick by what I said, the ones I fear are the ones with no face. you can't defeat what you can't identify (applies just as much the suits as it does to viruses).

[leedsutdman]

Sorry, I don't wish to appear either argumentative or thick (I can be both!) but what do you mean by "something isn't right"? With the way the vaccines have been developed, tested, approved? It's be super rapid, for sure, but when everything else is set aside and there is ONLY one priority, develop a Covid vaccine, then good things can happen, and the vaccines have been subject to regulatory regimes right round the globe, not just here. As for "need", that will always be down to personal perspective, but as one who said from the outset that herd immunity was what was required, I'd a be pretty f00king hypocritical if I said no to the vaccine (not that I was ever tempted to do so) as that's the one way that immunity for the herd (i.e all of us) can be achieved without exposing more folks to the virus.

Waiting for things to "settle down" without the vaccination programme achieving the aim of more or less total immunisation is just a recipe for more peaks and troughs, and more lockdowns, not acceptable given what its already done to us all.

you keep your heels dug in if you wish (one stubborn b4stard amongst us all won't make much difference )

I didn't say something isn't right with the vaccine, time will tell on that one because you are the test. I haven't got the time to list my questions about the other things or the inclination. And there will be more than me being a stubborn b@stard about it too.