O/T Vaccine Passport

[Geoff Parkstone]

National Yinsurance perhaps?

[swaledale]

One thing longer term is the avoidance of 'drift' - 85% plus of the population getting jabbbed is monumental, but what happens when that becomes 65% next year, 35% the year after etc, maybe it will be a more pointed reminder to folk to get a booster to get them into Pride Park than for the good of the nation

If we can get 85 - 90% first time around, why would it not be the case subsequently, unless one is relying on people to remember when to go and that isn't the case with other routine jabs. Only the suspicious or anti vaxxers are going to want to miss out and an Vaccine passport won't affect them.

[Andy_Faber]

If we can get 85 - 90% first time around, why would it not be the case subsequently

Because that regretably is human nature. As I mentioned before I coincidentally did a lot of reading on this in 2018/2019 and continue to do so, and drop-off is a constant bane of the lives of those seeking medical cures. The drop offs (in both trials and the real world) in modern times have been concentrated on the same demographics 'we' (I refer to UK here) are having problems with regarding Covid. Nothing really to do with anti-vaxers as such people willingly commenced on the programmes in question, but don't see them through. .

[ramAnag]

I find it rather amusing that someone who constantly spouts right wing libertarian propaganda should be in favour of an ID card, whereby the government would have access to and control over your personal data! A wee bit contradictory, but hey dumb is as dumb does.

The thing about passports, driving licences etc. is that firstly the data on them is limited and there is limited access and secondly you voluntarily own these and provide the information. A Police Officer or other government official can't stop you in the street and demand you produce them.

An ID card would have considerable amounts of personal data, managed by government, all liable to hacking, leaking or simple human error. Not a comfortable idea thank you very much.

I mean this country did fight a war partly because we didn't want that sort of society!

People who have something to hide, will just get around the system, the evidence from France and Germany where they do have ID cards shows they don't reduce crime or illegal immigration, so what exactly would be their purpose? The cost would run into many millions, money that could be better spent on the NHS or improved policing for example.

I'm not sure what underage con merchants are but its clearly an obsession of Thicky's.

What the hells an NY number rA?

Sorry...NI, not NY. As I say, I understand your reservations and I’m not entirely comfortable arguing for ID cards, but both society and technology have changed enormously since the end of WW2.
Could it not be the case that an ID card, including possibly crucial medical data, might now be put to good use? I accept that a future totalitarian government might be able to misuse such information but I’m not sure that’s not already the case.

[MadAmster]

Sinds the mid 90s, it's been compulsory in NL for everybody over the age of 14 to carry photo ID in public. It's always been accepted and there isn't even a small group of protestors against it

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry...NI, not NY. As I say, I understand your reservations and I’m not entirely comfortable arguing for ID cards, but both society and technology have changed enormously since the end of WW2.
Could it not be the case that an ID card, including possibly crucial medical data, might now be put to good use? I accept that a future totalitarian government might be able to misuse such information but I’m not sure that’s not already the case.

NY = Nationalist Yobbo? A special type of ID card. 'OK Sonny, what's your Nationalist Yobbo Number? You aren't allowed to drive an orange Citroen Saxo with a straight through exhaust without one'. Got a ring to it has that

[swaledale]

Sorry...NI, not NY. As I say, I understand your reservations and I’m not entirely comfortable arguing for ID cards, but both society and technology have changed enormously since the end of WW2.
Could it not be the case that an ID card, including possibly crucial medical data, might now be put to good use? I accept that a future totalitarian government might be able to misuse such information but I’m not sure that’s not already the case.

In which case why give them access to the whole lot? Still whilst he may have had the date wrong, Orwell was pretty much spot on in 1984, increasing surveillance, monitoring and control, introduced in the name "its good for society" and of course the good proles have nothing to fear, except that nobody can actually point to the actual benefits of this creeping control! It doesn't impede the activities of the criminal element and its not actually produced a demonstrable happier or safer society.

I'd not be handing my NI number over for a courtesy car! They presumably have your driving licence, bank details passport, why would they need that and on what basis? We seem to be ever willing to hand over more and more personal details with no idea about how its stored or used.

[Andy_Faber]

In which case why give them access to the whole lot? Still whilst he may have had the date wrong, Orwell was pretty much spot on in 1984, increasing surveillance, monitoring and control, introduced in the name "its good for society" and of course the good proles have nothing to fear, except that nobody can actually point to the actual benefits of this creeping control! It doesn't impede the activities of the criminal element and its not actually produced a demonstrable happier or safer society.

I'd not be handing my NI number over for a courtesy car! They presumably have your driving licence, bank details passport, why would they need that and on what basis? We seem to be ever willing to hand over more and more personal details with no idea about how its stored or used.

But 'they' have all that info anyway, they gave it us in the first place.

[ramAnag]

In which case why give them access to the whole lot? Still whilst he may have had the date wrong, Orwell was pretty much spot on in 1984, increasing surveillance, monitoring and control, introduced in the name "its good for society" and of course the good proles have nothing to fear, except that nobody can actually point to the actual benefits of this creeping control! It doesn't impede the activities of the criminal element and its not actually produced a demonstrable happier or safer society.

I'd not be handing my NI number over for a courtesy car! They presumably have your driving licence, bank details passport, why would they need that and on what basis? We seem to be ever willing to hand over more and more personal details with no idea about how its stored or used.

But that’s the point, Swale. The ‘creeping control’ and ‘increasing surveillance’ is already in place...every time you use a M-way, go to a football match, use public transport or walk through any city centre. Facial recognition and number plate recognition have seen to that.

What difference will an ID card make to the collection you doubtless already carry? On the other hand an ID card that includes details of such things as blood group, vaccination details, willingness to act as donor etc might save your, or someone else’s, life.

Must admit, I don’t understand the NI thing either, but it’s how they do it and it’s either that or be stuck in Stoke...25 miles from home for three and a half hours.

[Geoff Parkstone]

so why are you breaching lockdown to visit Stoke. It has to be an incredibly good reason to draw you to that ****hole