The questions....

[countygump]

Some excellent questions there, I really hope the manager has the answers.

I’d say we’re set up to defend rather than attack, and the priority is to retain possession rather than look to score goals. Most of that possession comes in areas where the opposition are happy to let us have the ball and we have no goal threat. It’s sterile, passive football and the players seem to have lost the nerve to try things. I’m starting to get fed up of opposition goalkeepers not having to muddy their kits.

To beat the high press, you need pace, precision passing and excellent movement. We might have that 25 yards from the opposition box, but we don’t have it when Doyle picks up the ball and knocks it sideways on the edge of our own box. We also play too deep due to the lack of pace in the side at the back.

Two more problems: our set plays are rubbish and rarely even create a chance, never mind a goal. And who’s getting on the ball and trying to make things happen for us in midfield? Ruben, mainly, but I don’t think we’ve found a way to consistently get the best out of him.

Tho Laddo makes some good points and obs knows a fair bit about Foosball. This ^^^, for me best sums up our 'problems', such as they are.

[matt_magpie]

I don’t buy at all Doyle slows down play. The amount of times he will play a 20/30 yard ball through the lines first time and to a player is quite frequent, if it’s not on he doesn’t play it. Again his performance Tuesday was very high, as their commentator said he doubted he would keep his energy up being nearly 40 and said at the end he did, we just take it for granted and some people on here just see his age not that he’s constantly busy recycling the ball, playing the ball at the right time and screening the back for, what he does is a lot harder than it appears.
I would say the players buy into the system else you wouldn’t see the commitment we see week in week out, yes we should have this but we all know it’s not the case all the time, they are 100% playing for Ardley. Regarding goals, personnel is a massive point with Dennis, Thomas and Roberts missing this season, let’s face it a couple of our strikers seem sub standard to put it politely. I want to see more from Enzio and Rodriguez, they are getting one on one with players but frequently not beating their man enough. Full backs are pushing on quite well so for me it is about quality in the final third, some players need to step up as teams will sit in. As for the press, most teams aren’t doing it to us, Chesterfield did to a very high standard, they were knackered second half. It’s not like we are getting caught in possession but more if we go long we’re not as effective, Wootons not a target man to that extent so unless effilong or Sam can step up a bit more there’s a slight challenge there but as I said not many have pressed for long periods or at a high standard.

[BigFatPie]

As others have said;
Set pieces
Not enough legs in midfield
Too many passes in our half, not enough in the opponent’s half.

Although the question of how you beat a ‘high press’ is a good one, it’s one you shouldn’t have to ask in the National League. Teams at this level shouldn’t be inviting the high press. Many teams don’t press us, especially at home, but we often aren’t good enough to get past 2 banks of 4 either. Once everyone is fit, we should be playing to our strengths and using the wings, maybe we will when Roberts is back.

[laddo]

I definitely believe the manager has made changes to the approach due to unexpected loss of Thomas and Roberts at the same time. I don't believe he fully trusts Rodders, Knowles, Sam, Enzio e
so he has adapted his approach.

One of our strengths is our back 4 is a talented unit at this level so no problem at all playing to their strength and protecting its one obvious weakness.

Ardley knows we will be pressed high up the pitch by certain teams so should have a plan to combat this.

[i961pie]

I don’t buy at all Doyle slows down play. The amount of times he will play a 20/30 yard ball through the lines first time and to a player is quite frequent, if it’s not on he doesn’t play it. Again his performance Tuesday was very high, as their commentator said he doubted he would keep his energy up being nearly 40 and said at the end he did, we just take it for granted and some people on here just see his age not that he’s constantly busy recycling the ball, playing the ball at the right time and screening the back for, what he does is a lot harder than it appears.
I would say the players buy into the system else you wouldn’t see the commitment we see week in week out, yes we should have this but we all know it’s not the case all the time, they are 100% playing for Ardley. Regarding goals, personnel is a massive point with Dennis, Thomas and Roberts missing this season, let’s face it a couple of our strikers seem sub standard to put it politely. I want to see more from Enzio and Rodriguez, they are getting one on one with players but frequently not beating their man enough. Full backs are pushing on quite well so for me it is about quality in the final third, some players need to step up as teams will sit in. As for the press, most teams aren’t doing it to us, Chesterfield did to a very high standard, they were knackered second half. It’s not like we are getting caught in possession but more if we go long we’re not as effective, Wootons not a target man to that extent so unless effilong or Sam can step up a bit more there’s a slight challenge there but as I said not many have pressed for long periods or at a high standard.

Doyle reminds me of the role McGovern played in the Forest side back in the day. Didn't get much recognition from the fans but the manager loved him.

[Davy500]

Sorry, but Doyle is one player who constantly looks for the early ball forward, the reason he ends up playing sideways or taking a safer option is because there is a lack of movement or options available from the front line so better to retain possession, recycle and try again than just lump an aimless ball forward.

He played the perfect captains role against Stockport and I'm convinced it was his barracking of the linesman that got us the offside decision for their goal, he covered every blade of grass in horrible game in horrible conditions and I'm sure he even did his bit to put Reid off when he had the late one on one with Pilling.

Even at nearly forty years old he is amongst the fittest players in this league with a great pedigree and this was confirmed by the Stockport commentator who suggest he would fade as the game went on due to his age, and then at the end of the game admitted he was wrong and commended Doyle on his level of fitness.

Also, regarding the Dagenham game, we didn't play better after he went in goal but that was collectively because of him and not despite of him.

Tsanho, great thread and sorry for the tirade regarding Doyle.

FWIW I think the return of Roberts will go a long way towards getting some of the creative threat back, it's no surprise that has decline a little since he got injured. it will also provide a boost to the other creative players like Enzio and Ruben, imagine those two with Roberts in a 3 behind Wootton.

The high press as others have said is easy to beat if you fight fire with fire. It ends up being a battle to see who has the most energetic press. If I was to be critical of anything this season it would be that when we face a high pressing team we sit back and invite them onto us even more making it much easier for them. We have the players to play these teams at their own game and win.

The whole point of the system we are trying to play is that while ever you are in possession of the ball the opposition cannot be a threat, it is then a case of working the angles and through the phases in order to create chances that are of a higher value than just lumping the ball down the channels. This has been proven with some of the team goals we have scored where there were lots of passes before the final decisive movements created the goal. It's not just passing around for passing's sake and when a decisive brave looking pass is made it isn't because that player decided to take a risk its because the opportunity had been created for that pass to be made. If players tried this every time fans would be going nuts about how often we give the ball away in midfield.

We have the players in this squad to adapt to a few decent formations and systems, the pressing 4-2-3-1 can change when necessary to a 4-3-3 and if we want to be more solid we can easily go to a flat 4-4-2 if necessary.

We are half way through the season, within spitting distance of top spot and we are yet to see the best of this squad, will be very interesting to see where we are in another 10 games.

Sounds like a never ending story- lets see where we are in another 10 games haha. Let me give you a hint, whether its 10 games, 20 games or even 50 games from now, things will most likely be exactly the same

[ncfcog]

Sounds like a never ending story- lets see where we are in another 10 games haha. Let me give you a hint, whether its 10 games, 20 games or even 50 games from now, things will most likely be exactly the same

Yep, will most likely still be pushing for promotion Davey

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I don’t buy at all Doyle slows down play. The amount of times he will play a 20/30 yard ball through the lines first time and to a player is quite frequent, if it’s not on he doesn’t play it. Again his performance Tuesday was very high, as their commentator said he doubted he would keep his energy up being nearly 40 and said at the end he did, we just take it for granted and some people on here just see his age not that he’s constantly busy recycling the ball, playing the ball at the right time and screening the back for, what he does is a lot harder than it appears.
I would say the players buy into the system else you wouldn’t see the commitment we see week in week out, yes we should have this but we all know it’s not the case all the time, they are 100% playing for Ardley. Regarding goals, personnel is a massive point with Dennis, Thomas and Roberts missing this season, let’s face it a couple of our strikers seem sub standard to put it politely. I want to see more from Enzio and Rodriguez, they are getting one on one with players but frequently not beating their man enough. Full backs are pushing on quite well so for me it is about quality in the final third, some players need to step up as teams will sit in. As for the press, most teams aren’t doing it to us, Chesterfield did to a very high standard, they were knackered second half. It’s not like we are getting caught in possession but more if we go long we’re not as effective, Wootons not a target man to that extent so unless effilong or Sam can step up a bit more there’s a slight challenge there but as I said not many have pressed for long periods or at a high standard.

I agree with you and others who have said Doyle is not the problem. There is a negative biased towards him from some elements of the fan base because of his age as well. That needs to be forgotten and if anyone has watched the film Moneyball it's about what the player can offer and bring to the team both on and off the field. The man is a consummate professional and has a good long career and that's not through luck either. He's an example for young players like Knowles, Wolfe etc.. is a natural leader and hence why he is rightly our captain.

The reason he will pass sideways or backwards or take longer than some fans expect him to pass the ball forward is because he will be looking for the right option or creating the time so the full backs can get forward. There is no point passing the ball forward for the sake of it if there is nobody in the right place or making the runs or creating their own space to receive it. We would end up losing possession a lot and subsequently fans would get annoyed with things breaking down all the time and giving the ball back to the opposition.

I've got no issues or concerns that the players do not buy into the system or are playing for the manager. I think we have the most committed group of players we have had in some years that will put the effort in. Plus what footballer does not want to play football on the ground and use or develop their technical skills instead of lumping it aimlessly?

You have dealt with the elephant in the room for me and that is Dennis and Thomas were a different kind of quality compared to Sam and Effiong from what I've seen of them so far. Sam has a thunderous powerful shot but we need to see more of this. Effiong in fairness has not had a run in the side as of yet. Knowles shows promise and has a natural eye for goal. I've said it on here already Dennis and Thomas scored 22 league goals between them in 37 games. We need to see these these goals from the other strikers (excluding Wootton)

I agree with you about Enzio and Rodrigues. They are the ones who are key to driving through and forward and scaring defenders. They do need to have belief and confidence going forward as they are capable to be exciting. Perhaps when Cal Roberts returns to full match fitness this will help them as he will be a driving force going forward.

With regards to the high press it relies on teams being brave and very energetic because they push forward so high it can leave them exposed at the back. A lot of teams at this level do not have the energy to adopt a high press. Some teams will try and counter this by getting the ball over the top for their strikers to get behind the opposing defence either to a target man or over the channels with cross field balls which you see a lot in league one and two. That's all well and good when teams have a target man like a Jason Lee or a Jimmy Spencer but like you I also don't think Wootton is that kind of player and that's not our style of play.

I do think we can go into our shells a little when the high press is adopted and absorb it and as such it can be perceived that the opposing team 'want's it more' or looks more aggressive whereas we can look more 'passive' it's just the nature of the tactics playing out. I think that's when we wait for an opportunity to open up and for the opposition to make the mistake. Perhaps we could fight fire with fire and then it becomes a battle, or lump it over the top but I get the feeling the smarter way or a way more suitable to our style is pass and move forward quicker in the last twenty minutes of games when up against high press. You basically try to play the opposing team off the park. However we need to be mindful these are tier five players so mistakes can and will be made because you've got to pass quicker, smarter and have less time to think.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

I'm not sure how you can ask these questions and say it's not a question about being Ardley out.
They are very good questions that Ardley has had 2 seasons and counting, to sort out.
No matter who he signs he isnt going to change his style.
The style you admit yourself doesn't seem to be working.
To answer your question we can stop playing across the back four into midfield and back again.
Mix it up , ask your attacking players to press up the pitch looking to support the front two.
Either running beyond or finding space by coming short to collect a pass in the opponents half so they can turn and run at them.
It has also been know for a central midfielder to push on into the box or run beyond the front pair to break down a defensive shackle.
All I'm sure Ardley is aware off..

[Iremongersrighthand]

Although I have no complaints about the desire or commitment of the team, which in itself is a compliment to the manager, I am concerned about our current performances. Yes, I know it’s easy to say this after two poor displays, but it isn’t as if we haven’t been playing poorly for a while now, although we have been grinding out wins.

I’m certainly no expert but I can’t see any patterns of play or system that has been put in place to maximise our chances of winning every game of football. It looks disjointed and bitty, often looking like a bunch of strangers who are trying their absolute best to grind out results. Often, a piece of individual skill gets us though games but the chances we create are so few and far between that I can’t see us winning as many games in the 2nd half of the season as we did in the 1st.

So, someone on here must have a better idea than I do and can answer these questions.

1. What can be changed in our current system/group of players to increase the amount of chances? I feel it’s not as simplistic as personnel.

2. How do you beat the high press? Which players in our team are unable to play this way, and why?

3. Do the players believe in this system? To their credit they have, to a man, given their all, but to me some of them look lost, almost as if it’s against every natural instinct to turn back and play a sideways or backwards pass.

4. What is a better system for our group of players? We’ve gone through a few formations now but rarely perform any differently.

This post isn't an ‘Ardley out’ one, but if it does go down that route can we try and support that view with reference to the above questions....and any others anyone else has 👍

Great set of questions. I think Howard Wilkinson answered most of them in the first 5 mins of his Magpie Circle interview.