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Thread: The questions....

  1. #1
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    The questions....

    Although I have no complaints about the desire or commitment of the team, which in itself is a compliment to the manager, I am concerned about our current performances. Yes, I know it’s easy to say this after two poor displays, but it isn’t as if we haven’t been playing poorly for a while now, although we have been grinding out wins.

    I’m certainly no expert but I can’t see any patterns of play or system that has been put in place to maximise our chances of winning every game of football. It looks disjointed and bitty, often looking like a bunch of strangers who are trying their absolute best to grind out results. Often, a piece of individual skill gets us though games but the chances we create are so few and far between that I can’t see us winning as many games in the 2nd half of the season as we did in the 1st.

    So, someone on here must have a better idea than I do and can answer these questions.

    1. What can be changed in our current system/group of players to increase the amount of chances? I feel it’s not as simplistic as personnel.

    2. How do you beat the high press? Which players in our team are unable to play this way, and why?

    3. Do the players believe in this system? To their credit they have, to a man, given their all, but to me some of them look lost, almost as if it’s against every natural instinct to turn back and play a sideways or backwards pass.

    4. What is a better system for our group of players? We’ve gone through a few formations now but rarely perform any differently.

    This post isn't an ‘Ardley out’ one, but if it does go down that route can we try and support that view with reference to the above questions....and any others anyone else has 👍

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSANHO View Post
    Although I have no complaints about the desire or commitment of the team, which in itself is a compliment to the manager, I am concerned about our current performances. Yes, I know it’s easy to say this after two poor displays, but it isn’t as if we haven’t been playing poorly for a while now, although we have been grinding out wins.

    I’m certainly no expert but I can’t see any patterns of play or system that has been put in place to maximise our chances of winning every game of football. It looks disjointed and bitty, often looking like a bunch of strangers who are trying their absolute best to grind out results. Often, a piece of individual skill gets us though games but the chances we create are so few and far between that I can’t see us winning as many games in the 2nd half of the season as we did in the 1st.

    So, someone on here must have a better idea than I do and can answer these questions.

    1. What can be changed in our current system/group of players to increase the amount of chances? I feel it’s not as simplistic as personnel.

    2. How do you beat the high press? Which players in our team are unable to play this way, and why?

    3. Do the players believe in this system? To their credit they have, to a man, given their all, but to me some of them look lost, almost as if it’s against every natural instinct to turn back and play a sideways or backwards pass.

    4. What is a better system for our group of players? We’ve gone through a few formations now but rarely perform any differently.

    This post isn't an ‘Ardley out’ one, but if it does go down that route can we try and support that view with reference to the above questions....and any others anyone else has 👍
    This should be a really good topic, because your questions are excellent and probably sum up the overall situation for many of us. The one big doubt I've had ever since Ardley was appointed is that he's never got the best out of his squad so I agree with all of your concerns, but I'm not clever enough to provide any answers. Hopefully others will do better than me.

  3. #3
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    We have the nucleus of a very good team. There are two main things that are letting us down, (1) The players are being shackled and are not allowed to do what they are best at.. (2) Doyle, has good a player that he may have been is the main reason for slowing up our attacks. He lacks pace and very seldom provides a goal scoring pass.. Its now time for someone else to be given the opportunity before we miss the chance to get promoted..

  4. #4
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    Superb post with some very interesting questions. This should be good

    I do agree it goes much further than just personnel which many seem to think that playing Knowles or a Wolfe will dramatically change things. It's not a hard simple

    Agree with durhampie, Doyle (who I like as a player) slows the play down too much for me, it's partly because he doesn't go hiding always wants the ball but playing the quarterback position as he has he doesn't vary his distribution enough. He plays too safe too often but he's more then good enough to be in the starting XI and would be in mine.

    Reeves who overall looks a decent player is too similar to Doyle and JOB which I didn't expect tbh, not that I knew him as a player prior to his arrival. Those 3 are all too similar, if Wolfe continues to impress then younger legs will help.

    The reason Ardley doesn't let the attacking players do what they do best is because with a central midfield 2 of the names available I think we would have a very soft centre. They arent a dynamic/strong enough pairing to allow Enzio and Roberts/Rodders etc to keep their boots white and attack fullbacks.

    To avoid having a soft centre and allowing teams to exploit our weakness in central defence (lack of pace) you go 3 in central Midfield, I'd prefer one screening and two in front to provide more support for Wootton and two wide men. When it ends up being 2 in front of back 4 we then have problems in an attacking sense.

    I don't mind one up top (I know many hate it) but to play it you need that player to be great at it (Nicky Forster at Reading a great example if you can remember him) I don't think Wootton is comfortable enough doing it. You also need support around them, that's where I think we have the players when all fit.

    Roberts, Rodders, Knowles, Enzio are good enough and lively enough to get around him and provide support but they have to be disciplined with their movement.

    Although play too many of those together and again it's very lightweight at times and they can go MIA very easily in games. This is where we miss Thomas IMO in either formation , he is mobile and physical even if he wasn't a natural finisher by any stretch.

    It's a real dilemma, Wootton suits a partner up top but I don't think our central midfield is mobile , dynamic enough. Play a stronger midfield and you are not getting best of Wootton.

    Gun to the head with this squad I'd go
    4-1-2-3 (with two wide players up top with one roaming and given more freedom) that suits the current squad the most IMO.

    To beat high press with this level of footballer it's simple go long, go aerial and to set plan. Again Thomas was perfect for this tactic.

    We haven't the standard of player to beat the high press like the top boys do which you are so often in PL and Champions League.

    As for whether the players collectively believe in the system it's impossible to tell for us mere supporters IMO, you'd have to ask them privately. One thing that is obvious is that the players play for the manager, I don't see any lack of effort or issues in the camp as suggested recently on NCM. If that happens the manager is dead in the water, if he doesn't have all putting a shift in. I've seen no evidence of this.

    Ardley has a Plan A , anyone who says he doesn't is a joke. He doesn't have enough of a contrasting Plan B IMO, on that basis he needs to amend Plan A to make it click and soon. It won't take much at all, minor things collectively could make us much improved. Wolfe could be key if given a go and impresses consistently. The biggest change needed is more adventurous with the passing more often and if sticking to 1 up top, to alter the midfield dynamic a bit.

    All of the above is just my view, I've never played professionally, never been managed by a professional, and certainly have no coaching qualifications. That's where we are way behind the manager, the coaches and the players involved at this level.

    Do we have anyone with a UEFA coaching badge on the site? Would be excellent to hear their views if we do.

  5. #5
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    Some excellent questions there, I really hope the manager has the answers.

    I’d say we’re set up to defend rather than attack, and the priority is to retain possession rather than look to score goals. Most of that possession comes in areas where the opposition are happy to let us have the ball and we have no goal threat. It’s sterile, passive football and the players seem to have lost the nerve to try things. I’m starting to get fed up of opposition goalkeepers not having to muddy their kits.

    To beat the high press, you need pace, precision passing and excellent movement. We might have that 25 yards from the opposition box, but we don’t have it when Doyle picks up the ball and knocks it sideways on the edge of our own box. We also play too deep due to the lack of pace in the side at the back.

    Two more problems: our set plays are rubbish and rarely even create a chance, never mind a goal. And who’s getting on the ball and trying to make things happen for us in midfield? Ruben, mainly, but I don’t think we’ve found a way to consistently get the best out of him.

  6. #6
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    To give my point some credibility I hope .......

    Watford dropped their hitherto seemingly undroppable talisman club captain Troy Deeney 5 games ago, they’ve won every game since playing a new expansive and energetic type of football and look destined to return to the promised land.

    Meanwhile, we have shown our streaming supporters something to shout about just the once in perhaps the last 10 games or so ... ironically when our skipper put himself in goal.

    My Lord, I rest my case.
    Last edited by kingmasson; 24-02-2021 at 11:32 PM.

  7. #7
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    There’s some really good answers already, thanks. There seems to be a general consensus, whether we like him or not, that Doyle slows the play down too much...I guess the next question is, ‘has Ardley told Doyle to play like that?’ To me, Doyle is one of the players who has great vision and has played some great passes this season alone eg Sutton away, but like others have said more often than not it’s the desire just to keep safe possession that is the highest priority.

    Let’s say we play the ball forward quicker, we then run the risk of playing aimless balls forward. I don’t know how you find the balance but I’d like us to be much more aggressive with a high press of our own and win the ball back further up the pitch. As others have said I think we’re ten yards too deep a lot of the time and almost invite the pressure....but admittedly I know next to FA about tactics!

    It looks like the problem remains the same from last season, our centre mid never dominates an opposition...I remember saying the same thing last year actually. The worrying thing is that these 1-0 scrappy wins soon turn into draws and losses and that’s eventually when people lose interest.

    What is the problem if we’re being simplistic then....Doyle, or what Doyle is being told to do by the manager?!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSANHO View Post
    There’s some really good answers already, thanks. There seems to be a general consensus, whether we like him or not, that Doyle slows the play down too much...I guess the next question is, ‘has Ardley told Doyle to play like that?’ To me, Doyle is one of the players who has great vision and has played some great passes this season alone eg Sutton away, but like others have said more often than not it’s the desire just to keep safe possession that is the highest priority.

    Let’s say we play the ball forward quicker, we then run the risk of playing aimless balls forward. I don’t know how you find the balance but I’d like us to be much more aggressive with a high press of our own and win the ball back further up the pitch. As others have said I think we’re ten yards too deep a lot of the time and almost invite the pressure....but admittedly I know next to FA about tactics!

    It looks like the problem remains the same from last season, our centre mid never dominates an opposition...I remember saying the same thing last year actually. The worrying thing is that these 1-0 scrappy wins soon turn into draws and losses and that’s eventually when people lose interest.

    What is the problem if we’re being simplistic then....Doyle, or what Doyle is being told to do by the manager?!
    Some good points here, but I don’t think it’s just about playing the ball out quicker. The players need to be braver and more ambitious in their passing. I think back to two great team goals - Reeves’ against Stockport and Wootton’s first against Solihull. Both came after lengthy passing sequences, but the goals only happened because at some stage someone played a risky forward pass that paid off. My frustration with both Reeves and Doyle is that they’re too often just keeping possession rather than trying to make something happen.

    At times, watching our endless possession with no end result, I’m reminded of Spain a decade ago when they would pass teams to death but the games would be devoid of any excitement or goals.

    I also think it’s quite telling that, halfway through the season, we still don’t have a system that consistently gets the best out of our forwards. I guess this is where the absence of Wes Thomas has been a big loss, because we haven’t managed to replace him as a foil for Wootton. Neither Effiong nor Sam appear to be the answer.

  9. #9
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    My question is when we have a midfield with no creativity and strikers that can't score, why do we sign a right and left back on loan. Perhaps they are proven tippy tapsters.

  10. #10
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    Sorry, but Doyle is one player who constantly looks for the early ball forward, the reason he ends up playing sideways or taking a safer option is because there is a lack of movement or options available from the front line so better to retain possession, recycle and try again than just lump an aimless ball forward.

    He played the perfect captains role against Stockport and I'm convinced it was his barracking of the linesman that got us the offside decision for their goal, he covered every blade of grass in horrible game in horrible conditions and I'm sure he even did his bit to put Reid off when he had the late one on one with Pilling.

    Even at nearly forty years old he is amongst the fittest players in this league with a great pedigree and this was confirmed by the Stockport commentator who suggest he would fade as the game went on due to his age, and then at the end of the game admitted he was wrong and commended Doyle on his level of fitness.

    Also, regarding the Dagenham game, we didn't play better after he went in goal but that was collectively because of him and not despite of him.

    Tsanho, great thread and sorry for the tirade regarding Doyle.

    FWIW I think the return of Roberts will go a long way towards getting some of the creative threat back, it's no surprise that has decline a little since he got injured. it will also provide a boost to the other creative players like Enzio and Ruben, imagine those two with Roberts in a 3 behind Wootton.

    The high press as others have said is easy to beat if you fight fire with fire. It ends up being a battle to see who has the most energetic press. If I was to be critical of anything this season it would be that when we face a high pressing team we sit back and invite them onto us even more making it much easier for them. We have the players to play these teams at their own game and win.

    The whole point of the system we are trying to play is that while ever you are in possession of the ball the opposition cannot be a threat, it is then a case of working the angles and through the phases in order to create chances that are of a higher value than just lumping the ball down the channels. This has been proven with some of the team goals we have scored where there were lots of passes before the final decisive movements created the goal. It's not just passing around for passing's sake and when a decisive brave looking pass is made it isn't because that player decided to take a risk its because the opportunity had been created for that pass to be made. If players tried this every time fans would be going nuts about how often we give the ball away in midfield.

    We have the players in this squad to adapt to a few decent formations and systems, the pressing 4-2-3-1 can change when necessary to a 4-3-3 and if we want to be more solid we can easily go to a flat 4-4-2 if necessary.

    We are half way through the season, within spitting distance of top spot and we are yet to see the best of this squad, will be very interesting to see where we are in another 10 games.

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