The questions....

[TSANHO]

Although I have no complaints about the desire or commitment of the team, which in itself is a compliment to the manager, I am concerned about our current performances. Yes, I know it’s easy to say this after two poor displays, but it isn’t as if we haven’t been playing poorly for a while now, although we have been grinding out wins.

I’m certainly no expert but I can’t see any patterns of play or system that has been put in place to maximise our chances of winning every game of football. It looks disjointed and bitty, often looking like a bunch of strangers who are trying their absolute best to grind out results. Often, a piece of individual skill gets us though games but the chances we create are so few and far between that I can’t see us winning as many games in the 2nd half of the season as we did in the 1st.

So, someone on here must have a better idea than I do and can answer these questions.

1. What can be changed in our current system/group of players to increase the amount of chances? I feel it’s not as simplistic as personnel.

2. How do you beat the high press? Which players in our team are unable to play this way, and why?

3. Do the players believe in this system? To their credit they have, to a man, given their all, but to me some of them look lost, almost as if it’s against every natural instinct to turn back and play a sideways or backwards pass.

4. What is a better system for our group of players? We’ve gone through a few formations now but rarely perform any differently.

This post isn't an ‘Ardley out’ one, but if it does go down that route can we try and support that view with reference to the above questions....and any others anyone else has 👍

[Elite_Pie]

Although I have no complaints about the desire or commitment of the team, which in itself is a compliment to the manager, I am concerned about our current performances. Yes, I know it’s easy to say this after two poor displays, but it isn’t as if we haven’t been playing poorly for a while now, although we have been grinding out wins.

I’m certainly no expert but I can’t see any patterns of play or system that has been put in place to maximise our chances of winning every game of football. It looks disjointed and bitty, often looking like a bunch of strangers who are trying their absolute best to grind out results. Often, a piece of individual skill gets us though games but the chances we create are so few and far between that I can’t see us winning as many games in the 2nd half of the season as we did in the 1st.

So, someone on here must have a better idea than I do and can answer these questions.

1. What can be changed in our current system/group of players to increase the amount of chances? I feel it’s not as simplistic as personnel.

2. How do you beat the high press? Which players in our team are unable to play this way, and why?

3. Do the players believe in this system? To their credit they have, to a man, given their all, but to me some of them look lost, almost as if it’s against every natural instinct to turn back and play a sideways or backwards pass.

4. What is a better system for our group of players? We’ve gone through a few formations now but rarely perform any differently.

This post isn't an ‘Ardley out’ one, but if it does go down that route can we try and support that view with reference to the above questions....and any others anyone else has 👍

This should be a really good topic, because your questions are excellent and probably sum up the overall situation for many of us. The one big doubt I've had ever since Ardley was appointed is that he's never got the best out of his squad so I agree with all of your concerns, but I'm not clever enough to provide any answers. Hopefully others will do better than me.

[durhampie]

We have the nucleus of a very good team. There are two main things that are letting us down, (1) The players are being shackled and are not allowed to do what they are best at.. (2) Doyle, has good a player that he may have been is the main reason for slowing up our attacks. He lacks pace and very seldom provides a goal scoring pass.. Its now time for someone else to be given the opportunity before we miss the chance to get promoted..

[laddo]

Superb post with some very interesting questions. This should be good

I do agree it goes much further than just personnel which many seem to think that playing Knowles or a Wolfe will dramatically change things. It's not a hard simple

Agree with durhampie, Doyle (who I like as a player) slows the play down too much for me, it's partly because he doesn't go hiding always wants the ball but playing the quarterback position as he has he doesn't vary his distribution enough. He plays too safe too often but he's more then good enough to be in the starting XI and would be in mine.

Reeves who overall looks a decent player is too similar to Doyle and JOB which I didn't expect tbh, not that I knew him as a player prior to his arrival. Those 3 are all too similar, if Wolfe continues to impress then younger legs will help.

The reason Ardley doesn't let the attacking players do what they do best is because with a central midfield 2 of the names available I think we would have a very soft centre. They arent a dynamic/strong enough pairing to allow Enzio and Roberts/Rodders etc to keep their boots white and attack fullbacks.

To avoid having a soft centre and allowing teams to exploit our weakness in central defence (lack of pace) you go 3 in central Midfield, I'd prefer one screening and two in front to provide more support for Wootton and two wide men. When it ends up being 2 in front of back 4 we then have problems in an attacking sense.

I don't mind one up top (I know many hate it) but to play it you need that player to be great at it (Nicky Forster at Reading a great example if you can remember him) I don't think Wootton is comfortable enough doing it. You also need support around them, that's where I think we have the players when all fit.

Roberts, Rodders, Knowles, Enzio are good enough and lively enough to get around him and provide support but they have to be disciplined with their movement.

Although play too many of those together and again it's very lightweight at times and they can go MIA very easily in games. This is where we miss Thomas IMO in either formation , he is mobile and physical even if he wasn't a natural finisher by any stretch.

It's a real dilemma, Wootton suits a partner up top but I don't think our central midfield is mobile , dynamic enough. Play a stronger midfield and you are not getting best of Wootton.

Gun to the head with this squad I'd go
4-1-2-3 (with two wide players up top with one roaming and given more freedom) that suits the current squad the most IMO.

To beat high press with this level of footballer it's simple go long, go aerial and to set plan. Again Thomas was perfect for this tactic.

We haven't the standard of player to beat the high press like the top boys do which you are so often in PL and Champions League.

As for whether the players collectively believe in the system it's impossible to tell for us mere supporters IMO, you'd have to ask them privately. One thing that is obvious is that the players play for the manager, I don't see any lack of effort or issues in the camp as suggested recently on NCM. If that happens the manager is dead in the water, if he doesn't have all putting a shift in. I've seen no evidence of this.

Ardley has a Plan A , anyone who says he doesn't is a joke. He doesn't have enough of a contrasting Plan B IMO, on that basis he needs to amend Plan A to make it click and soon. It won't take much at all, minor things collectively could make us much improved. Wolfe could be key if given a go and impresses consistently. The biggest change needed is more adventurous with the passing more often and if sticking to 1 up top, to alter the midfield dynamic a bit.

All of the above is just my view, I've never played professionally, never been managed by a professional, and certainly have no coaching qualifications. That's where we are way behind the manager, the coaches and the players involved at this level.

Do we have anyone with a UEFA coaching badge on the site? Would be excellent to hear their views if we do.

[nw6pie]

Some excellent questions there, I really hope the manager has the answers.

I’d say we’re set up to defend rather than attack, and the priority is to retain possession rather than look to score goals. Most of that possession comes in areas where the opposition are happy to let us have the ball and we have no goal threat. It’s sterile, passive football and the players seem to have lost the nerve to try things. I’m starting to get fed up of opposition goalkeepers not having to muddy their kits.

To beat the high press, you need pace, precision passing and excellent movement. We might have that 25 yards from the opposition box, but we don’t have it when Doyle picks up the ball and knocks it sideways on the edge of our own box. We also play too deep due to the lack of pace in the side at the back.

Two more problems: our set plays are rubbish and rarely even create a chance, never mind a goal. And who’s getting on the ball and trying to make things happen for us in midfield? Ruben, mainly, but I don’t think we’ve found a way to consistently get the best out of him.

[countygump]

Some excellent questions there, I really hope the manager has the answers.

I’d say we’re set up to defend rather than attack, and the priority is to retain possession rather than look to score goals. Most of that possession comes in areas where the opposition are happy to let us have the ball and we have no goal threat. It’s sterile, passive football and the players seem to have lost the nerve to try things. I’m starting to get fed up of opposition goalkeepers not having to muddy their kits.

To beat the high press, you need pace, precision passing and excellent movement. We might have that 25 yards from the opposition box, but we don’t have it when Doyle picks up the ball and knocks it sideways on the edge of our own box. We also play too deep due to the lack of pace in the side at the back.

Two more problems: our set plays are rubbish and rarely even create a chance, never mind a goal. And who’s getting on the ball and trying to make things happen for us in midfield? Ruben, mainly, but I don’t think we’ve found a way to consistently get the best out of him.

Tho Laddo makes some good points and obs knows a fair bit about Foosball. This ^^^, for me best sums up our 'problems', such as they are.

[matt_magpie]

I don’t buy at all Doyle slows down play. The amount of times he will play a 20/30 yard ball through the lines first time and to a player is quite frequent, if it’s not on he doesn’t play it. Again his performance Tuesday was very high, as their commentator said he doubted he would keep his energy up being nearly 40 and said at the end he did, we just take it for granted and some people on here just see his age not that he’s constantly busy recycling the ball, playing the ball at the right time and screening the back for, what he does is a lot harder than it appears.
I would say the players buy into the system else you wouldn’t see the commitment we see week in week out, yes we should have this but we all know it’s not the case all the time, they are 100% playing for Ardley. Regarding goals, personnel is a massive point with Dennis, Thomas and Roberts missing this season, let’s face it a couple of our strikers seem sub standard to put it politely. I want to see more from Enzio and Rodriguez, they are getting one on one with players but frequently not beating their man enough. Full backs are pushing on quite well so for me it is about quality in the final third, some players need to step up as teams will sit in. As for the press, most teams aren’t doing it to us, Chesterfield did to a very high standard, they were knackered second half. It’s not like we are getting caught in possession but more if we go long we’re not as effective, Wootons not a target man to that extent so unless effilong or Sam can step up a bit more there’s a slight challenge there but as I said not many have pressed for long periods or at a high standard.

[i961pie]

I don’t buy at all Doyle slows down play. The amount of times he will play a 20/30 yard ball through the lines first time and to a player is quite frequent, if it’s not on he doesn’t play it. Again his performance Tuesday was very high, as their commentator said he doubted he would keep his energy up being nearly 40 and said at the end he did, we just take it for granted and some people on here just see his age not that he’s constantly busy recycling the ball, playing the ball at the right time and screening the back for, what he does is a lot harder than it appears.
I would say the players buy into the system else you wouldn’t see the commitment we see week in week out, yes we should have this but we all know it’s not the case all the time, they are 100% playing for Ardley. Regarding goals, personnel is a massive point with Dennis, Thomas and Roberts missing this season, let’s face it a couple of our strikers seem sub standard to put it politely. I want to see more from Enzio and Rodriguez, they are getting one on one with players but frequently not beating their man enough. Full backs are pushing on quite well so for me it is about quality in the final third, some players need to step up as teams will sit in. As for the press, most teams aren’t doing it to us, Chesterfield did to a very high standard, they were knackered second half. It’s not like we are getting caught in possession but more if we go long we’re not as effective, Wootons not a target man to that extent so unless effilong or Sam can step up a bit more there’s a slight challenge there but as I said not many have pressed for long periods or at a high standard.

Doyle reminds me of the role McGovern played in the Forest side back in the day. Didn't get much recognition from the fans but the manager loved him.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I don’t buy at all Doyle slows down play. The amount of times he will play a 20/30 yard ball through the lines first time and to a player is quite frequent, if it’s not on he doesn’t play it. Again his performance Tuesday was very high, as their commentator said he doubted he would keep his energy up being nearly 40 and said at the end he did, we just take it for granted and some people on here just see his age not that he’s constantly busy recycling the ball, playing the ball at the right time and screening the back for, what he does is a lot harder than it appears.
I would say the players buy into the system else you wouldn’t see the commitment we see week in week out, yes we should have this but we all know it’s not the case all the time, they are 100% playing for Ardley. Regarding goals, personnel is a massive point with Dennis, Thomas and Roberts missing this season, let’s face it a couple of our strikers seem sub standard to put it politely. I want to see more from Enzio and Rodriguez, they are getting one on one with players but frequently not beating their man enough. Full backs are pushing on quite well so for me it is about quality in the final third, some players need to step up as teams will sit in. As for the press, most teams aren’t doing it to us, Chesterfield did to a very high standard, they were knackered second half. It’s not like we are getting caught in possession but more if we go long we’re not as effective, Wootons not a target man to that extent so unless effilong or Sam can step up a bit more there’s a slight challenge there but as I said not many have pressed for long periods or at a high standard.

I agree with you and others who have said Doyle is not the problem. There is a negative biased towards him from some elements of the fan base because of his age as well. That needs to be forgotten and if anyone has watched the film Moneyball it's about what the player can offer and bring to the team both on and off the field. The man is a consummate professional and has a good long career and that's not through luck either. He's an example for young players like Knowles, Wolfe etc.. is a natural leader and hence why he is rightly our captain.

The reason he will pass sideways or backwards or take longer than some fans expect him to pass the ball forward is because he will be looking for the right option or creating the time so the full backs can get forward. There is no point passing the ball forward for the sake of it if there is nobody in the right place or making the runs or creating their own space to receive it. We would end up losing possession a lot and subsequently fans would get annoyed with things breaking down all the time and giving the ball back to the opposition.

I've got no issues or concerns that the players do not buy into the system or are playing for the manager. I think we have the most committed group of players we have had in some years that will put the effort in. Plus what footballer does not want to play football on the ground and use or develop their technical skills instead of lumping it aimlessly?

You have dealt with the elephant in the room for me and that is Dennis and Thomas were a different kind of quality compared to Sam and Effiong from what I've seen of them so far. Sam has a thunderous powerful shot but we need to see more of this. Effiong in fairness has not had a run in the side as of yet. Knowles shows promise and has a natural eye for goal. I've said it on here already Dennis and Thomas scored 22 league goals between them in 37 games. We need to see these these goals from the other strikers (excluding Wootton)

I agree with you about Enzio and Rodrigues. They are the ones who are key to driving through and forward and scaring defenders. They do need to have belief and confidence going forward as they are capable to be exciting. Perhaps when Cal Roberts returns to full match fitness this will help them as he will be a driving force going forward.

With regards to the high press it relies on teams being brave and very energetic because they push forward so high it can leave them exposed at the back. A lot of teams at this level do not have the energy to adopt a high press. Some teams will try and counter this by getting the ball over the top for their strikers to get behind the opposing defence either to a target man or over the channels with cross field balls which you see a lot in league one and two. That's all well and good when teams have a target man like a Jason Lee or a Jimmy Spencer but like you I also don't think Wootton is that kind of player and that's not our style of play.

I do think we can go into our shells a little when the high press is adopted and absorb it and as such it can be perceived that the opposing team 'want's it more' or looks more aggressive whereas we can look more 'passive' it's just the nature of the tactics playing out. I think that's when we wait for an opportunity to open up and for the opposition to make the mistake. Perhaps we could fight fire with fire and then it becomes a battle, or lump it over the top but I get the feeling the smarter way or a way more suitable to our style is pass and move forward quicker in the last twenty minutes of games when up against high press. You basically try to play the opposing team off the park. However we need to be mindful these are tier five players so mistakes can and will be made because you've got to pass quicker, smarter and have less time to think.

[kingmasson]

To give my point some credibility I hope .......

Watford dropped their hitherto seemingly undroppable talisman club captain Troy Deeney 5 games ago, they’ve won every game since playing a new expansive and energetic type of football and look destined to return to the promised land.

Meanwhile, we have shown our streaming supporters something to shout about just the once in perhaps the last 10 games or so ... ironically when our skipper put himself in goal.

My Lord, I rest my case.