Scottish Government moving the goalposts

[Taintedice]

The Scottish Government currently spends a lot more than it earns taxes raised in Scotland. I suggest that you look at the latest set of GERS figures which explains everything but the pro independence supporters will not accept them because it does not suit their independence agenda.

How on earth can you possibly be this ignorant, is it just stupidity on your part?

[Taintedice]

We were never promised a federal system in Scotland in 2014.

Gordon Brown, leader of Better Together, said the UK would be a federal state within 2 years, plenty folk voted No because of lies like this and lies about staying in the EU. You really need to stop being so myopic and do some basic research.

[Taintedice]

If you believe in independence vote SNP. If you don't vote tactically and don't give your second vote to either the Greens or the SNP.

Jeremy Paxman has nothing on you

[BCram]

In fairness to Islay he is not accepting the counter argument about GERS. You read any independence minded explanation of GERS and it completely changes the whole basis for the way the figures should be calculated. There is a surplus of government revenue over expenditure and GERS is a Westminster plot to make the Scots frightened to vote for independence.
I have tried on many occasions to understand this argument and I don't believe the SNP case. There will be the transfer of Scotland's share of the covid bloated national debt to manage and I really think we should wait and see firstly how Brexit works out and secondly how Westminster gets the UK out of the effects covid is having on the UK economy.

[Returnofrros]

If you believe in independence vote SNP. If you don't vote tactically and don't give your second vote to either the Greens or the SNP.

If you believe in corruption, women with cocks and flying the "rainbow" flag more than the Jack.....
Vote SNP.

But they have as much chance of "delivering" separatism as the UK has of rebuilding the empire.

[BCram]

Gordon Brown, leader of Better Together, said the UK would be a federal state within 2 years, plenty folk voted No because of lies like this and lies about staying in the EU. You really need to stop being so myopic and do some basic research.

Now now Taintedice. Gordon Brown was not the leader of the Better Together campaign, that was Alastair Darling and he did a brilliant job in sticking to the economy and the fear that things would go pear shaped for Scotland if they left the UK and found it impossible to rejoin the EU as a new member. Gordon Brown made a passionate speech about what it meant to be part of the union and his take was of a federation. His vow was heavily played up by the SNP as being the seminal moment for many who were thinking about voting for independence. They changed their mind having looked over the precipice and Gordon Brown's vow was played up after the vote as the biggest lie.
Nobody expected that the UK would vote for Brexit so how could suggesting that voting no be a lie at the time. It turned out not to be true but that is very different from saying the discussion about the best way to stay in the EU was based on a lie.

[BCram]

If you believe in corruption, women with cocks and flying the "rainbow" flag more than the Jack.....
Vote SNP.

But they have as much chance of "delivering" separatism as the UK has of rebuilding the empire.

Thank you for raising the tone of the discussion!

[Returnofrros]

Thank you for raising the tone of the discussion!

My pleasure.

[Taintedice]

Now now Taintedice. Gordon Brown was not the leader of the Better Together campaign, that was Alastair Darling and he did a brilliant job in sticking to the economy and the fear that things would go pear shaped for Scotland if they left the UK and found it impossible to rejoin the EU as a new member. Gordon Brown made a passionate speech about what it meant to be part of the union and his take was of a federation. His vow was heavily played up by the SNP as being the seminal moment for many who were thinking about voting for independence. They changed their mind having looked over the precipice and Gordon Brown's vow was played up after the vote as the biggest lie.
Nobody expected that the UK would vote for Brexit so how could suggesting that voting no be a lie at the time. It turned out not to be true but that is very different from saying the discussion about the best way to stay in the EU was based on a lie.

Nicola Sturgeon gave clear warnings at the time that the English nationalists were planning to leave the EU, but it was never amplified in the same way as Brown's ramblings were. Alistair Darling was a ghost during the referendum, Brown was never out of the press. To him, Scotland being controlled by a far-right English nationalist government will always be better than a home-grown labour one. Figure that out.

[BCram]

Nicola Sturgeon gave clear warnings at the time that the English nationalists were planning to leave the EU, but it was never amplified in the same way as Brown's ramblings were. Alistair Darling was a ghost during the referendum, Brown was never out of the press. To him, Scotland being controlled by a far-right English nationalist government will always be better than a home-grown labour one. Figure that out.

I disagree. His motivation was always to have as large a Scotttish Labour representation in Westminster as possible to prevent a Conservative government. I can't believe that at the very point we had a Scots educated Prime Minister Blair, Gordon Brown as Chancellor of the Exchequer and Robin Cook as Foreign Secretary we started Devolution in the teeth of Tam Dalyells opposition.