Scottish Government moving the goalposts

[eric_sinclair]

No I did.

But Brexit changes everything now we are out that God forsaken organisation....plus another 7 years of the SNP with Nicoliar in charge has opened my eyes.

Bit confused here G.
Has the UK in the last 7 years became "the most successful union the world has ever known" which under cameron/may/Johnson I find incredible and absurd.
Or
7 years ago you wanted to leave "the most successful union the world has ever known" which does seem strange.

I've no problem with anyone changing views over different periods of time or different parties/leaders governing but I do find it unusual to see anyone have such a change when it's the same party governing, and you were like me a big indy supporter. I usually vote for the individual my as the parties imo are all ****. My preference wud be independence with a Labour gov with a John Smith type in charge.

[Taintedice]

and you were like me a big indy supporter.

oh my

[eric_sinclair]

oh my

You know something here I dont?

[islaydarkblue]

Bit confused here G.
Has the UK in the last 7 years became "the most successful union the world has ever known" which under cameron/may/Johnson I find incredible and absurd.
Or
7 years ago you wanted to leave "the most successful union the world has ever known" which does seem strange.

I've no problem with anyone changing views over different periods of time or different parties/leaders governing but I do find it unusual to see anyone have such a change when it's the same party governing, and you were like me a big indy supporter. I usually vote for the individual my as the parties imo are all ****. My preference wud be independence with a Labour gov with a John Smith type in charge.

If Scotland became an independent country the SNP party would disappear and mot of their supporters would go crawling back to vote Labour.
We would be stuck with the Labour Party in power for ever more and taxed to the hilt.
Be very careful what you wish for.

[eric_sinclair]

If Scotland became an independent country the SNP party would disappear and mot of their supporters would go crawling back to vote Labour.
We would be stuck with the Labour Party in power for ever more and taxed to the hilt.
Be very careful what you wish for.

Just your opinion.

[BCram]

If Scotland became an independent country the SNP party would disappear and mot of their supporters would go crawling back to vote Labour.
We would be stuck with the Labour Party in power for ever more and taxed to the hilt.
Be very careful what you wish for.

I have been interested in this idea for a long time. When you look at other countries, mainly in Africa but elsewhere too, the people who were given the right to form the first government were usually members who had led the campaigns for independence. Some of them became dictators some were overthrown by armed struggle and all have not thought that being part of the British Empire was a better option. I think the SNP have distinct groupings within their party. They started out as Tartan Tories and once they were able to show that they were an effective opposition to Labour they swing to the left and picked up the anti Tony Blair loyal Labour voters who believed in clause 4.
I was hopeful that Holyrood would not be dominated by one party if we voted for independence. That hope has been dented quite a bit by the trouble that The Salmond committee has encountered. This was a major surprise to me. It looks like all governments who have power act in their own rather than the national interest. It is possible to see Brexit as a discussion that was designed to save the Conservative party rather than an honest attempt to return power to the electorate.
If we ever do vote for independence I hope that we do not end up with a one party state. I think the voting system is designed to create multi party governments and am hopeful that we will not face decades of single party governments.

[deecom]

I have been interested in this idea for a long time. When you look at other countries, mainly in Africa but elsewhere too, the people who were given the right to form the first government were usually members who had led the campaigns for independence. Some of them became dictators some were overthrown by armed struggle and all have not thought that being part of the British Empire was a better option. I think the SNP have distinct groupings within their party. They started out as Tartan Tories and once they were able to show that they were an effective opposition to Labour they swing to the left and picked up the anti Tony Blair loyal Labour voters who believed in clause 4.
I was hopeful that Holyrood would not be dominated by one party if we voted for independence. That hope has been dented quite a bit by the trouble that The Salmond committee has encountered. This was a major surprise to me. It looks like all governments who have power act in their own rather than the national interest. It is possible to see Brexit as a discussion that was designed to save the Conservative party rather than an honest attempt to return power to the electorate.
If we ever do vote for independence I hope that we do not end up with a one party state. I think the voting system is designed to create multi party governments and am hopeful that we will not face decades of single party governments.

The SNP have gained rapid growth in Scotland, because when they came into power, sweeping changes were made.
The abolition of bridge tolls, hospital parking charges, free bus travel and free university tuition etc.
Also the lack of opposition was a factor, the Tories have never been popular in Scotland, although I think Ruth Davidson has given them credibility.
Labour, once the dominant party in Scotland, sat on their laurels and made no significant changes.
After the poll tax was ditched, Labour had the chance to change the rates system, which had caused the poll tax in the first place.
Instead they dithered, tinkered with it, and the only significant change was calling it Council Tax.
Once again we were back to a rates system, a property tax.
As for the Liberal party in Scotland, it seems to me that voters tend to vote for the person , rather than the party, but it has never been a strong alternative.

[deecom]

I have been interested in this idea for a long time. When you look at other countries, mainly in Africa but elsewhere too, the people who were given the right to form the first government were usually members who had led the campaigns for independence. Some of them became dictators some were overthrown by armed struggle and all have not thought that being part of the British Empire was a better option. I think the SNP have distinct groupings within their party. They started out as Tartan Tories and once they were able to show that they were an effective opposition to Labour they swing to the left and picked up the anti Tony Blair loyal Labour voters who believed in clause 4.
I was hopeful that Holyrood would not be dominated by one party if we voted for independence. That hope has been dented quite a bit by the trouble that The Salmond committee has encountered. This was a major surprise to me. It looks like all governments who have power act in their own rather than the national interest. It is possible to see Brexit as a discussion that was designed to save the Conservative party rather than an honest attempt to return power to the electorate.
If we ever do vote for independence I hope that we do not end up with a one party state. I think the voting system is designed to create multi party governments and am hopeful that we will not face decades of single party governments.

Interested on your take of the one party state,
Years ago before a Scottish government and even when the British government was a Tory government, Scotland was still labour for a great number of years, almost like a one party state.
I remember in Dundee, if the Labour Party in Dundee had put up a cardboard cut out for election, they word still have been elected.
One party states in Africa are different because there are no politics in Africa because it always comes back to one thing, tribalism.
The best example is Rhodesia (Zimbadwe), which was the bread basket of Africa, a rich country with minerals, mining, tourism and agriculture, which was destroyed by Robert Mugabe.
Nykomo was pro-British, but More tribes had allegiance to Mugabe and stayed in power for decades.

[Returnofrros]

Bit confused here G.
Has the UK in the last 7 years became "the most successful union the world has ever known" which under cameron/may/Johnson I find incredible and absurd.
Or
7 years ago you wanted to leave "the most successful union the world has ever known" which does seem strange.

I've no problem with anyone changing views over different periods of time or different parties/leaders governing but I do find it unusual to see anyone have such a change when it's the same party governing, and you were like me a big indy supporter. I usually vote for the individual my as the parties imo are all ****. My preference wud be independence with a Labour gov with a John Smith type in charge.

Short answer.

Tee off at 11.

Hated Clegg, Cameron and Osbourne and what they did to disability benefits.....clouded my judgement.

Liked Salmond as a politician, forgetting I knew little of what was coming behind him.

i stopped working 80 hours a week in 2013 and have read a lot more since and got more interested.

I now appreciate what we have in the UK and just didn't realise it back then.

I changed my mind.

[BCram]

Read interesting comment about Scotland Act. It was not thought that any party would ever win an outright majority which is why there is no second chamber to review legislation. Maybe Westminster should review the arrangements? The way the SNP have acted to frustrate the Salmond Committer enquiries might be justification. Not sure that Westminster is any different but at least the legal set up is separate.