Derby to stop taking the knee.....

[Trickytreesreds]

I’ve very little time for Megan Markle, but there’s something absurdly ironic about you of all people attacking the reaction to her on the basis of ‘no proof/evidence...guilty as charged, because it’s a race accusation’, especially given what you’ve written about George Floyd.

To the best of my knowledge no one on here has defended the character of the man but, although you have no proof or evidence, you have plenty to say about how disreputable he was and even go so far as to say, at 2.58 this afternoon, that taking Fentanyl was the ‘cause’ of death. Really?

In the same post you also seek to compare a soldier making a split second error when pulling a trigger, with a cop deliberately kneeling on someone’s neck for, allegedly, in excess of eight minutes. Just too ludicrous for words Tricky.

P.S. Apologies, Swale, but it had to be quoted to be believed.

Did you want the full list?
The medical examiner says the injury occurred when George "experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)."

The medical examiner also says that other significant conditions include, "arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use.

Obviously, you want to ignore everything, except a stupid cop breaking the law with his arrest.
Perhaps you need to google his list of offences yourself. The man was anything but a hero to be reverred.
As for the trigger example. How many have been castigated for shooting first by instinct and getting it very wrong.
I am not defending that cop at all. However, it seems like his execution is assured, by the race baiters who have already decided.
Apologies to swale.

[ramAnag]

You seem to have missed the points, Mr. T.

It’s a tad hypocritical of you to bang on about alleged Royal racism as having no proof/evidence while being happy to comment on George Floyd without proof or evidence.

You described GF taking Fentanyl as the cause of death. Along with the other factors you mention they may have been contributory factors though they were not likely to be as significant as having someone kneeling on your neck for upwards of eight minutes.

For about the fifth time...no one has described GF as a ‘hero’.

There is a huge difference between the ‘instinctive’ and split second reactive pulling of a trigger and the totally premeditated action of kneeling on someone’s neck for in excess of eight minutes. You really need to recognise that.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Whilst I dont think anyone here has made out GF to be a hero, he has been nominated for Donald Trump's (how ironic is that) statue "Garden of Heroes" in the USA: an accolade that, I feel confident in saying, he would not have been considered for were he still alive.

Mourn him but do not idolize him. He was a career criminal / drug dealer, but let's not forget that the police officer had had 18 complaints recorded against him with MPD Internal Affairs. Neither should be considered role models, but one has become a "poster boy" for a movement. Is that wrong? Perhaps history will judge.

Lets face it Nelson Mandela is considered a hero by billions of people, yet he had a rap sheet probably longer than George Floyd's. He did however have the opportunity to "change for the good", an opportunity not afforded to Floyd

[ramAnag]

Whilst I dont think anyone here has made out GF to be a hero, he has been nominated for Donald Trump's (how ironic is that) statue "Garden of Heroes" in the USA: an accolade that, I feel confident in saying, he would not have been considered for were he still alive.

Mourn him but do not idolize him. He was a career criminal / drug dealer, but let's not forget that the police officer had had 18 complaints recorded against him with MPD Internal Affairs. Neither should be considered role models, but one has become a "poster boy" for a movement. Is that wrong? Perhaps history will judge.

Lets face it Nelson Mandela is considered a hero by billions of people, yet he had a rap sheet probably longer than George Floyd's. He did however have the opportunity to "change for the good", an opportunity not afforded to Floyd

All fair points, but perhaps inadvertently you have taken us back to the initial targets of the BLM protests...the statues dedicated to a variety of colonialists and slave traders etc.
Were they not the ‘poster boy’ equivalents of their time? ‘History’ came along to judge but, as I recall, you and those much further to the Right didn’t much care for the verdict.

[Andy_Faber]

All fair points, but perhaps inadvertently you have taken us back to the initial targets of the BLM protests...the statues dedicated to a variety of colonialists and slave traders etc.
Were they not the ‘poster boy’ equivalents of their time? ‘History’ came along to judge but, as I recall, you and those much further to the Right didn’t much care for the verdict.

the 'slight' difference being that (some of) those protesting aganst said colonialists are quite happy to buy/shoplift from shops that suppress their retail prices by the use of 'slave labour', much of which labour (and ironically much of the fortunes made) come from their own demographic. Slavery/exploitation knows no colour IMO but that, to quote TTR (I'm sure he's said this) doesn't fit 'the agenda'. YES, I do check as much as possible the source of the clothes I wear, right down to my Harris Tweed underwear

Edit: and the protestor's UK role model, who openly encouraged the BAME (I think he actually meant black) people to buy from BAME shops at the same time swallowed his principles enough to take massive sponsorship from non-BAME commercial enterprises

There are no clean hands

[Trickytreesreds]

All fair points, but perhaps inadvertently you have taken us back to the initial targets of the BLM protests...the statues dedicated to a variety of colonialists and slave traders etc.
Were they not the ‘poster boy’ equivalents of their time? ‘History’ came along to judge but, as I recall, you and those much further to the Right didn’t much care for the verdict.

Arrrrrrrr, but you conveniently missed out the ones attacked like Churchill etc.
These same "activists" want Nelson removed etc.

So to pacify a minority, will we be re writing all history?
After watching DR Shola Mos-Shogbamimu, attack the queen and UK yesterday. Calling the monachy and the country, based on slavery, colonialism, hate and oppression. I can only conclude that a fraction with these borders want, our whole culture disassembled and tone of shame forced on the population.

Perhaps these people forget, the Queen is head of the Commonwealth and very proud of it.
I see division and hate alright, but it certainly doesn't all come from the side being portrayed.

[Geoff Parkstone]

All fair points, but perhaps inadvertently you have taken us back to the initial targets of the BLM protests...the statues dedicated to a variety of colonialists and slave traders etc.
Were they not the ‘poster boy’ equivalents of their time? ‘History’ came along to judge but, as I recall, you and those much further to the Right didn’t much care for the verdict.

Yes they probably were poster boys of their generation. I don't recall "history" judging them, but rather BLM protesters were judge, jury and executioner. I didn't care for the verdict as it was not arrived at in any reasonable way, but rather by mob rule. On this basis does this mean the KKK were vindicated in creating "strange fruit" because they judged and summarily executed what they thought were miscreants??

[Geoff Parkstone]

ALLEGEDLY

Fanta was created for Nazi Germany when they could not obtain Coke during WW2;
Hugo Boss was a member of the Nazi party and designed/produced uniforms for the SS and Hitler Youth;
Nestle and other companies used slave labour provided by the Germans;
Barclays bank handed over details of jewish employees to the authorities

Plus countless German companies will have collaborated with the nazi rulers.

History doesnt seem to have judged them, history does not stigmatise them. Could it be because the victims were not black? Im not supporting slavery or its proponents, but slavery is far from unique to the black community. Its a crime against humanity, not something to be culturally appropriated.

I know two rights dont make a wrong, but when one pulls down former slave owners statues whilst perhaps sipping your Fanta orange, nibbling on your kitkat, parading your Boss designer clothes and using your Barclaycard, do you not get the irony?

[ramAnag]

Yes they probably were poster boys of their generation. I don't recall "history" judging them, but rather BLM protesters were judge, jury and executioner. I didn't care for the verdict as it was not arrived at in any reasonable way, but rather by mob rule.

I’ll stick with answering you GP because you have at least have not tried to deflect.
I’ll agree that the ultimate action looked like ‘mob rule’...but let’s consider a few more facts.
For years historians, campaigners and members of Bristol’s black community had been lobbying for the statue to be removed.
In 2017 those that owned Colston Hall declared that they were planning to change the name. The same was true of Colston Primary School and the Colston Yard Pub.
Yet still the statue of Colston remained in a city described as ‘wilfully blind to its history’.

Is it any wonder then that, fuelled by the anger of what is still happening to black people in the USA, this symbol of oppression and wrongdoing was toppled in the way it was? No one had listened to the requests for a statue to a man whose activities had led to the enslavement of 84,000 and deaths of up to 20,000 black people to be removed.

[Geoff Parkstone]

yet the Colston's School, which I (not fondly) remember playing against at rugby and cricket, when not on my 18 weeks school holidays, still remains called that, as does the girls school.

That said, I would be very much in favour of tearing down the disgusting Colston Tower building in the city centre. A more disgusting piece of 1970's concrete block architecture would be hard to find.