Signing Backgrounds

[queenslandpie]

This. I think it's the system. I mentioned Effiong the other day - 17 goals last season at Dover, including proving himself a difficult customer against us.

He comes to Notts and says he is having to learn the new system, new runs to make and new places to be, and now he looks a shadow of his former self.

The manager is slavishly devoted to his system, trusting the processes and the patterns of play he always speaks about, but then in his post match interview against Kings Lynn laments how they brought a big man on up front and put our centre halves under pressure and almost inevitably got a goal.

So why is it that when we put our (objectively decebt) big man on, instead of making a goal inevitable he can barely control the ball or stay on his feet?

Tactics are interesting message board fodder but maybe we are over complicating things. We've got good players for the level - does anyone really think performances and results would be any worse if in the dressing room before a match we gave them a simple but effective game plan and wound them up?

Moot point really as we will persist with filling their heads with algebra and 'calming them down'.

Effiong took penalties for Dover as well I think 5 are pens of that total so over the course of the season his goal return is very ordinary. To me he looks over weight and cumbersome and as you say he's obviously confused. Confused enough to miss an easy header and give a foul on the edge of his own area in injury time for no particular reason! No surprise Stevenage wanted rid of him. They are soaring up the table without him. Otherwise great points.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

So I have had a quick and basic look at where we have signed players from. I have ignored loan players. The vast majority of our squad do not have a background in this division. There are one or two good ones to come out of this such as Wootton probably being the number one EFL signing for example but by and large my opinion is that this recruitment strategy is not working. Take a look at the list below. Interestingly the few we have brought in from NL are all pretty good. Of the EFL ones Lacey, Rawlinson and Wootton and Slocombe I would keep. Still hard even at this stage to pass comment on Sam and Rodrigues. I do think we need to be looking more at non league for players. They will be cheaper, more accustomed to the rigors of the division and probably more eager. The majority of that side won't be playing for us next season regardless of the division we are in.


Player Club
Slocombe Bristol Rovers EFL
Pilling Tranmere EFL
Brindley Bromley NL
Turner Mansfield EFL
Barnett Oldham EFL
Rawlinson Port Vale EFL
Mccrory Burton EFL
Kelly Evans Kettering NL
Chicksen Bolton EFL
Alex Lacey Gillingham EFL
Reeves Bradford EFL
O'Brien Bradford EFL
Doyle Coventry EFL
Wootton S****horpe EFL
Roberts Morpeth NL
Boldjewinn Crawley EFL
Rodrigues Portugal N/A
Sam Holland N/A

I think it's the right strategy to get players from a higher level because generally they have the experience of playing at a higher level and also have a greater level of quality. However that is only part of the jigsaw. The second part is their temperament, fitness, mentality. Then it's how they all work together and galvanise as a team.

I don't doubt that we have the players and individual talent to be serious contenders at this level, however as a unit rightly or wrongly it seems at times we are less than the total sum of the parts. There have been two stand our moments for me this season where I feel we have reached our full potential. The first half against Barnet at home and the recent home game with ten men against Dagenham.

We are the biggest club in non-league and my fear is if we fill the team of non-league players we become an established non-league club over time rather than a temporary one, and if we were to get promoted we would struggle and could risk coming straight back which seems Barrow could be in danger of. We almost need promotion out of this league to be a catalyst to push the club forward and being competitive in league two like Shrewsbury, Bristol Rovers, Lincoln and Luton before us, rather than being a one season wonder to then struggle in the league above. That is what my hope would be by having players with EFL experience.

I'm not saying their are not merits with signing some non-league players, but if we do I would like them to be young players on their way up or who have had to take a step back to kick start their careers such as the likes of Cal Roberts, Kyle Wootton et al. What can then happen is as these players progress and grow then they follow the club up through the lower leagues. For me the clubs I've mentioned previously should be our blueprint.

[nw6pie]

I think it's the right strategy to get players from a higher level because generally they have the experience of playing at a higher level and also have a greater level of quality. However that is only part of the jigsaw. The second part is their temperament, fitness, mentality. Then it's how they all work together and galvanise as a team.

I don't doubt that we have the players and individual talent to be serious contenders at this level, however as a unit rightly or wrongly it seems at times we are less than the total sum of the parts. There have been two stand our moments for me this season where I feel we have reached our full potential. The first half against Barnet at home and the recent home game with ten men against Dagenham.

We are the biggest club in non-league and my fear is if we fill the team of non-league players we become an established non-league club over time rather than a temporary one, and if we were to get promoted we would struggle and could risk coming straight back which seems Barrow could be in danger of. We almost need promotion out of this league to be a catalyst to push the club forward and being competitive in league two like Shrewsbury, Bristol Rovers, Lincoln and Luton before us, rather than being a one season wonder to then struggle in the league above. That is what my hope would be by having players with EFL experience.

I'm not saying their are not merits with signing some non-league players, but if we do I would like them to be young players on their way up or who have had to take a step back to kick start their careers such as the likes of Cal Roberts, Kyle Wootton et al. What can then happen is as these players progress and grow then they follow the club up through the lower leagues. For me the clubs I've mentioned previously should be our blueprint.

I notice that King's Lynn's best player the other night, Sonny Carey, had been released by Norwich (he's only 20). One thing we've never seemingly been able to do is pick up decent players released by Forest, Derby and Leicester. Is that because they're not good enough, or are there more potential Cal Roberts' on our doorstep?

While I'm talking about talented young players, it's good to see our under-18s doing so well this season. It's a shame that no fans can actually watch them perform to see if there are any gems amongst them - you know, before some Premiership team comes and takes them off us. They beat Doncaster 4-2 yesterday, the latest in a string of winning performances (pretty sure we thrashed Huddersfield recently, too). Anyone on the board got any inside info on the players to watch?

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I notice that King's Lynn's best player the other night, Sonny Carey, had been released by Norwich (he's only 20). One thing we've never seemingly been able to do is pick up decent players released by Forest, Derby and Leicester. Is that because they're not good enough, or are there more potential Cal Roberts' on our doorstep?

While I'm talking about talented young players, it's good to see our under-18s doing so well this season. It's a shame that no fans can actually watch them perform to see if there are any gems amongst them - you know, before some Premiership team comes and takes them off us. They beat Doncaster 4-2 yesterday, the latest in a string of winning performances (pretty sure we thrashed Huddersfield recently, too). Anyone on the board got any inside info on the players to watch?

It's an interesting point you make about picking up decent players being released from Forest, Leicester and Derby. I do think it's important to forge good links and relationships with your neighbours in higher leagues in my opinion as it can offer a pool of talent for players to come on loan and also ones that are released. We saw this in recent years with Grant and Yates and Grealish who albeit was from Aston Villa they are a midlands club.

There are advantages as well because some of the youngsters may not have to move from where they are living as well. Obviously we are loaning Jimmy Knowles from Mansfield and in the position we are we should also look towards Lincoln.

Clubs like Bury, Oldham, Rochdale etc.. have always been able to tap into the pool of talent from the Manchester area and so should we in our region especially being in the heart of the East Midlands. That is also why it adds insult to injury that we got relegated out of the football league when there probably was talent within a 50 mile radius of Meadow Lane out there.

[the_anticlough]

Win the midfield early, and when you do keep your foot on the throat of the opposition and don’t let up until the game is won. Only once you have the midfield can you play your fancy football....we seem to forget this is every game we play. How many times in the last two seasons have our midfield dominated an opposition in this way? I’m honestly struggling to think of a single game. I thought this was the very basic foundations of winning a game.

I think you're getting to the heart of the problem. The Kings Lynn game - the lasting impression is of a really disconnected team, the defenders struggling to use the ball from the back and the forward players starved of decent possession - it's the midfield that should be joining up the dots and connecting these parts. Ardley's system is all about his playing patterns, 'playing through the lines' from the back. When the midfield fails to do this it's going to look ugly.

[crazyfists]

We all know it's the system and not recruitment, we should be tearing alot of teams in this league a new arsehole but we don't and will not for the foreseeable future.

[Bridg4d_Pie_]

This. I think it's the system. I mentioned Effiong the other day - 17 goals last season at Dover, including proving himself a difficult customer against us.

He comes to Notts and says he is having to learn the new system, new runs to make and new places to be, and now he looks a shadow of his former self.

The manager is slavishly devoted to his system, trusting the processes and the patterns of play he always speaks about, but then in his post match interview against Kings Lynn laments how they brought a big man on up front and put our centre halves under pressure and almost inevitably got a goal.

So why is it that when we put our (objectively decebt) big man on, instead of making a goal inevitable he can barely control the ball or stay on his feet?

Tactics are interesting message board fodder but maybe we are over complicating things. We've got good players for the level - does anyone really think performances and results would be any worse if in the dressing room before a match we gave them a simple but effective game plan and wound them up?

Moot point really as we will persist with filling their heads with algebra and 'calming them down'.

Well you are missing a point about Roberts for sure, he has played in the Premier with Newcastle.

[queenslandpie]

Well you are missing a point about Roberts for sure, he has played in the Premier with Newcastle.

Roberts 1 appearance for Newcastle was in the FA Cup. Incorrect.

[Bridg4d_Pie_]

Roberts 1 appearance for Newcastle was in the FA Cup. Incorrect.

The point was he had played for them be F A Cup or League, as a club they were in the Premier League.