Historic England - The Black Country

[Q165]

The picture of the car balanced on the edge of the harbour is of Wells-next-the-Sea, North Norfolk. It is a lovely town with some excellent pubs and harbour side fish and chip shops. The trouble is, though, on a nice Summer day, the place gets rammed. It is amazing to stand and watch the tide come in to that harbour, it’s a big tide and comes in extremely fast.

Sorry about that. It was contained within the personal collection of one of a number of Black Country people. I just picked. a few at random that I thought might be interesting. I had no idea where that one was.

[WBA1955]

Sorry but this is full of inaccuracies.................where to start!

There is no evidence that the BC was ever named after the thick seam, this was something invented by those founders of the BCS in the 1960s. It suited there stance as most coal mines in Wolverhampton mined the thin seam and iron-ore, both which were critical for the development of the iron industry in the BC. Most of the thick seam was only suitable for household use, except in the district west of Dudley. I challenged the BCS about this definition and they have dropped it now as it has no foundation at all.

Coal mining has taken place for hundreds of years in the region, but it was only once the iron industry became established with its smoking furnaces and chimneys that killed any vegetation and blackened the atmosphere, that the name Black Country (BC) evolved around 1830-40.

Secondly, all those original sources (Gresley, Sidney, White, Burritt, Griffiths) geographically described the 'original BC' as comprising the Staffordshire section of our region only, with the Worcestershire section including Dudley only being incorporated 15-20 years later. These early sources all described the 'original BC' as incorporating 'Wolverhampton, Bilston, Wednesbury, Tipton, and northern West Bromwich'. Local sources confirmed the same, such as Reverend Isles, and the Earl of Dartmouth who owned mining land at West Bromwich - they determined that 10 of Wolverhampton's 14 parish areas lay truly in the BC, but not including those 4 parishes lying on its smaller, less-populated (back then) western side.

I spent 3 years studying newspaper archives (local and national) as well as those early 1800s books and all confirm the above. Contrary to the post above, Wolverhampton was widely considered to be the Capital or Metropolis of the BC, and Dudley did not consider itself to be so until the 1960s. Wolverhampton had first mooted the notion that it was only 'Of the BC but not in it' in 1937 as its western residential aspects evolved and with it newer engineering industries, but throughout the key section of the Industrial Revolution, Wolverhampton was a key BC town with 15000 metal workers and 3000 miners (I exclude Bilston from these figures for the sake of argument), and its average age of death was the 3rd lowest in the UK at just 19 years and 1 month. Between 400-600 miners died in Wolverhampton coal-mining incidents (again NOT Bilston) between 1830-1900.

The new pits at Jubilee, Sandwell Park, Hilton, Baggeridge, and Ashmore Park were not the typical shallow BC coal-mine, and hence did not really scar the surface in the same traditional way, hence writers like Phil Drabble exclude those areas from the original BC.

Wolverhampton was often the town most affected by the smog from the furnaces and chimneys due to its vast iron works, as viewed by some of those writers named, when viewing the region from Dudley Castle.

The BC was not named after nailers or chain-makers, tho in the 1900s these occupations have gained near-mythical status amongst BC historians because of their respective struggles and hardship. This 1900s perception of what defined the BC, with Dudley at its heart, is very different to the common view of the 'original BC'. Even 15 out of 17 1950-1980s writers acknowledge that Wolverhampton is a BC town.

Regards modern Wolverhampton, it is a confusing situation as its western suburbs like Tettenhall, Penn, Finchfield, Oxley, and Bushbury to the north were green field sites during the Industrial Revolution so strictly speaking cannot be considered BC and I doubt many people from those areas, certainly on the western side, associate themselves with it. The rest of the population are probably confused, depending on what they were told by their elders or what they were taught But only recently have those critical 1800s documents become easy to access, that tell us why the BC evolved and where the original BC lay. But this notion that Wolverhampton only wanted any BC legacy in recent times, is frankly laughable. Both Wolverhampton and West Bromwich, along with Walsall, lie on the edge of the BC. I certainly don't feel like I'm in the BC when I'm in West Bromwich, it feels very Birmingham-suburb to me, in fact until you go northward towards Wednesbury at Golds Hill, Carters Green, and Hill Top, which just like Monmore Green and Horsley Fields, were true BC areas.

That's a very good and informative post.
A lot changed when the boundaries did. I am from Coseley originally but in 1966 it was divided between Wolverhampton and Dudley with Sandwell taking a small slice.
We fell just inside the Wolverhampton side by about a hundred yards. The area was then classed as being Wolverhampton.
Coseley was the second largest urban district in the country.
Bilston, and Wednesfield and even Heath Town had their own independent councils that were consumed by Wolverhampton.
So it's correct to say that part's of Wolverhampton are in the Black Country but the parts that were taken over.
The Black Country is also defined by dialect and food, and I doubt the people of Penn and Tettehall sit down to Boony Pie or Pig's feet lol.
My grandfather was a coal miner at Sandwell Colliery which was not far from the Hawthorns and closed in 1960.

[Subwaywolf]

That's a very good and informative post.
A lot changed when the boundaries did. I am from Coseley originally but in 1966 it was divided between Wolverhampton and Dudley with Sandwell taking a small slice.
We fell just inside the Wolverhampton side by about a hundred yards. The area was then classed as being Wolverhampton.
Coseley was the second largest urban district in the country.
Bilston, and Wednesfield and even Heath Town had their own independent councils that were consumed by Wolverhampton.
So it's correct to say that part's of Wolverhampton are in the Black Country but the parts that were taken over.
The Black Country is also defined by dialect and food, and I doubt the people of Penn and Tettehall sit down to Boony Pie or Pig's feet lol.
My grandfather was a coal miner at Sandwell Colliery which was not far from the Hawthorns and closed in 1960.

Hi Des

Forgive me if my OP seemed a little 'in ya face'. Gonna bore you some more (:-. Read if you want, ignire if you like,

Its just that it somewhat annoys me when people deny that Wolverhampton people suffered/struggled and hence contributed to the legacy of the BC. Sorry to add, but this is the stance perpetuated by many of the blue and white persuasion these days, and it is a misrepresentation of history.

If you look at all the original quotes regards the BC, Wolverhampton was considered to be in it. Not because of the areas it took over Des. That is just a 1960s-70s misconception. You need to go further back into Black Country history. I accept that today, many people base it on the way it evolved, on accents, on traditions that have been retained - and that has changed things but the larger towns have become more cosmopolitan. But that is also why it has rewritten history. It is why the 'original Black Country' from the 1800s is a different beast from the modern-day perception of the Black Country. Even our parents version is different to the original one, because the ancient coalfield / iron-ore field expired around 1880, and thus the iron industry withered away over a period as it now had to import iron-ore, which made its products less cost-effective. But that is when the true Black Country was really with us. 1840-1880. It was first called the BC around 1830-40.

For example, back in 1840, which was the key part of the Industrial Revolution and saw the Black Country at its most productive, official census records show that Wolverhampton had more miners than any other BC town except Bilston. Its great iron works around its centre and Horsley Fields and Monmore Green earnt it its nickname of 'Ironopolis' and the 'Capital of the Iron Trade in the Black Country'.

I started off researching the area I worked in, which was Willenhall Road, about half a mile out of town, and knew there wre lots of major iron works there but then was staggered to also find out that there were collieries across whe whole eastern side because like many other people, the BC Society had sort of inferred that Wolverhampton had no mining legacy. That is because they rather-craftily based it solely on the thick coal seam. There were collieries in 'Wolverhampton propa' such as Chillington (East Park which contained over 100 shafts), Old Heath, Deans, Barnfield, New Cross, Bowman's Harbour, Willenhall Road, Horsley Fields, Stow Heath, Monmore Green, Blakenhall, Dudley Road, Harrolds, Cockshutts, Rough Hills, Timmins, Hill Park, Hinckes, and the Wolverhampton Colliery. None of these were in areas inherited by Wolverhampton. And of course then spreading into that contested area of Ettiingshall and Parkfields which contained more collieries......does this belong to Bilston, Wolverhampton, or Sedgley? Well historically Wolverhampton was split into 2 parishes.....Deanery to the west, and Stow Heath to the east. The latter contained eastern Wolverhampton, Bilston, and Willenhall. Many people only think of the 1966 boundary changes but I looked into history much further back. Bilston and Willenhall belonged historically to Wolverhampton from 968AD and Lady Wulfruna, and then they belonged to Wolverhampton through the manor and parish system, through the Poor Law system etc. Only in 1894-1966 was Bilston totally independent. A small period in history. People forget this because of the 1966 boundary changes nationwide.

By the way, there was also a small colliery called the Penn Colliery where the Rose and Crown stands on Penn Road, and a stone pit at plush Compton. Then of course there were a number of collieries at Wednesfield such as Neachell, Castlebridge, Lock House, and the major Ashmore Park Colliery. The Hilton Colliery was like Sandwell Park, in that it mined the deeper seam in more recent times. It closed around 1970 but a lot of people from the Scotlands estate and Low Hill worked there, as it was just three-quarters of a mile away.

A lot of people scoff when I make this claim about Wolverhampton being the traditional or original Capital of the Black Country, but it certainly was the case. I believe Dudley struggled to vie for the status back in the key 1800s Industrial Revolution period because it sat in a Worcestershire enclave. Back then County-status was quite important, and the major part of the coalfield for instance, was called 'The Great South Staffordshire coalfield'. Dudley, back then, could not claim to be capital of a region that primarily lay in a different County. If Dudley had sat in Staffordshire, I believe it may well have tried to challenge Wolverhampton. Today of course, we are all unified by the abomination that is the West Midlands County boundary, so it seems reasonable to suggest Dudley merits the crown as its sits smack bang in the middle, but you cannot change history.

The Wolverhampton coalfield has been ignored by BC historians, and almost written off as if it never existed. There were 70 collieries I have discovered, and also over 100 in Bilston which was arguably the main mining district of the entire BC. I have also discovered that pit bank wenches originated at Wolverhampton pits, chiefly where ironstone and the thin seam was mined, and the infamous but dreaded truck system of payment using butty's was far more common in Wolverhampton collieries than in the Dudley area. Thomas Tancred interviewed miners and a miner at a thick seam Dudley pit stated that mining the thin seam was considered far harder work than mining the thick seam, yet was worse paid. It also required young boys to crawl down narrow tunnels. But the thick seam was found at certain Wolverhampton collieries - Chillington, Stow Heath, Hill Park, Hinckes, Rough Hills, Harrolds, Cockshutts, and the Wolverhampton Colliery. Though not in the same proportion as in the Dudley field.

That Black Country sport bull-baiting was said to have emerged in Wolverhampton, as was rat fighting - where a man had to fight rat tied to a piece of string on a table, with his teeth.

Sorry to bore you all, but I implore anyone who doubts my research to undertake their own. Newspaper archives and book sfrom the 1800s tell us a great deal. The first ever quote to highlight the Black Country was from a Liberal Reformers Meeting in 1841, reported by the Lichfield Observer, when the town clerk made a fairly unremarkable speech, stating " Who could go into the Black Country of Staffordshire, Wolverhampton, Bilston, Tipton.........such a fine class or working men you will never find". This predates the 1846 Gresley comment.

Best wishes to all.

[WBA1955]

Hi Des

Forgive me if my OP seemed a little 'in ya face'. Gonna bore you some more (:-. Read if you want, ignire if you like,

Its just that it somewhat annoys me when people deny that Wolverhampton people suffered/struggled and hence contributed to the legacy of the BC. Sorry to add, but this is the stance perpetuated by many of the blue and white persuasion these days, and it is a misrepresentation of history.

If you look at all the original quotes regards the BC, Wolverhampton was considered to be in it. Not because of the areas it took over Des. That is just a 1960s-70s misconception. You need to go further back into Black Country history. I accept that today, many people base it on the way it evolved, on accents, on traditions that have been retained - and that has changed things but the larger towns have become more cosmopolitan. But that is also why it has rewritten history. It is why the 'original Black Country' from the 1800s is a different beast from the modern-day perception of the Black Country. Even our parents version is different to the original one, because the ancient coalfield / iron-ore field expired around 1880, and thus the iron industry withered away over a period as it now had to import iron-ore, which made its products less cost-effective. But that is when the true Black Country was really with us. 1840-1880. It was first called the BC around 1830-40.

For example, back in 1840, which was the key part of the Industrial Revolution and saw the Black Country at its most productive, official census records show that Wolverhampton had more miners than any other BC town except Bilston. Its great iron works around its centre and Horsley Fields and Monmore Green earnt it its nickname of 'Ironopolis' and the 'Capital of the Iron Trade in the Black Country'.

I started off researching the area I worked in, which was Willenhall Road, about half a mile out of town, and knew there wre lots of major iron works there but then was staggered to also find out that there were collieries across whe whole eastern side because like many other people, the BC Society had sort of inferred that Wolverhampton had no mining legacy. That is because they rather-craftily based it solely on the thick coal seam. There were collieries in 'Wolverhampton propa' such as Chillington (East Park which contained over 100 shafts), Old Heath, Deans, Barnfield, New Cross, Bowman's Harbour, Willenhall Road, Horsley Fields, Stow Heath, Monmore Green, Blakenhall, Dudley Road, Harrolds, Cockshutts, Rough Hills, Timmins, Hill Park, Hinckes, and the Wolverhampton Colliery. None of these were in areas inherited by Wolverhampton. And of course then spreading into that contested area of Ettiingshall and Parkfields which contained more collieries......does this belong to Bilston, Wolverhampton, or Sedgley? Well historically Wolverhampton was split into 2 parishes.....Deanery to the west, and Stow Heath to the east. The latter contained eastern Wolverhampton, Bilston, and Willenhall. Many people only think of the 1966 boundary changes but I looked into history much further back. Bilston and Willenhall belonged historically to Wolverhampton from 968AD and Lady Wulfruna, and then they belonged to Wolverhampton through the manor and parish system, through the Poor Law system etc. Only in 1894-1966 was Bilston totally independent. A small period in history. People forget this because of the 1966 boundary changes nationwide.

By the way, there was also a small colliery called the Penn Colliery where the Rose and Crown stands on Penn Road, and a stone pit at plush Compton. Then of course there were a number of collieries at Wednesfield such as Neachell, Castlebridge, Lock House, and the major Ashmore Park Colliery. The Hilton Colliery was like Sandwell Park, in that it mined the deeper seam in more recent times. It closed around 1970 but a lot of people from the Scotlands estate and Low Hill worked there, as it was just three-quarters of a mile away.

A lot of people scoff when I make this claim about Wolverhampton being the traditional or original Capital of the Black Country, but it certainly was the case. I believe Dudley struggled to vie for the status back in the key 1800s Industrial Revolution period because it sat in a Worcestershire enclave. Back then County-status was quite important, and the major part of the coalfield for instance, was called 'The Great South Staffordshire coalfield'. Dudley, back then, could not claim to be capital of a region that primarily lay in a different County. If Dudley had sat in Staffordshire, I believe it may well have tried to challenge Wolverhampton. Today of course, we are all unified by the abomination that is the West Midlands County boundary, so it seems reasonable to suggest Dudley merits the crown as its sits smack bang in the middle, but you cannot change history.

The Wolverhampton coalfield has been ignored by BC historians, and almost written off as if it never existed. There were 70 collieries I have discovered, and also over 100 in Bilston which was arguably the main mining district of the entire BC. I have also discovered that pit bank wenches originated at Wolverhampton pits, chiefly where ironstone and the thin seam was mined, and the infamous but dreaded truck system of payment using butty's was far more common in Wolverhampton collieries than in the Dudley area. Thomas Tancred interviewed miners and a miner at a thick seam Dudley pit stated that mining the thin seam was considered far harder work than mining the thick seam, yet was worse paid. It also required young boys to crawl down narrow tunnels. But the thick seam was found at certain Wolverhampton collieries - Chillington, Stow Heath, Hill Park, Hinckes, Rough Hills, Harrolds, Cockshutts, and the Wolverhampton Colliery. Though not in the same proportion as in the Dudley field.

That Black Country sport bull-baiting was said to have emerged in Wolverhampton, as was rat fighting - where a man had to fight rat tied to a piece of string on a table, with his teeth.

Sorry to bore you all, but I implore anyone who doubts my research to undertake their own. Newspaper archives and book sfrom the 1800s tell us a great deal. The first ever quote to highlight the Black Country was from a Liberal Reformers Meeting in 1841, reported by the Lichfield Observer, when the town clerk made a fairly unremarkable speech, stating " Who could go into the Black Country of Staffordshire, Wolverhampton, Bilston, Tipton.........such a fine class or working men you will never find". This predates the 1846 Gresley comment.

Best wishes to all.

I knew of the cockshutts and rough hills collieries, and had forgotten that the lake in East Park drained into the old mine workings.
So you are quite correct, Wolverhampton can claim to be part of the Black Country.
I have lots of book's and old maps of the black country and Wolverhampton. Again you are correct in that the Wolverhampton books never mention the coal mining history, just that Wolverhampton was a wool town that became a manufacturing one and an important transport town.
I was born in the women's hospital by West Park, but spent most of my life in Coseley.
I also spent 33 years working for Wolverhampton Council as well as Thompson's Ettingshall.
The railways, and companies such as Guy's, Sunbeam, Villiers are what Wolverhampton is best known for and the mining side has been forgotten.
Okay you win, but now you have to convince Hitler lol.😁

[Subwaywolf]

I knew of the cockshutts and rough hills collieries, and had forgotten that the lake in East Park drained into the old mine workings.
So you are quite correct, Wolverhampton can claim to be part of the Black Country.
I have lots of book's and old maps of the black country and Wolverhampton. Again you are correct in that the Wolverhampton books never mention the coal mining history, just that Wolverhampton was a wool town that became a manufacturing one and an important transport town.
I was born in the women's hospital by West Park, but spent most of my life in Coseley.
I also spent 33 years working for Wolverhampton Council as well as Thompson's Ettingshall.
The railways, and companies such as Guy's, Sunbeam, Villiers are what Wolverhampton is best known for and the mining side has been forgotten.
Okay you win, but now you have to convince Hitler lol.��

Yes I admit that was quite funny Des, even though I viewed it through gritted teeth.
Best wishes mate

[WOODLANDSWOLF]

Great post Subway and WBA55.

My definition of the Black Country was always much simpler, if you were with relatives you couldn't understand and you could smell pickled Onions and stale beer you were there!

After we moved to Bushbury from Coseley we used to go back to visit my Mom's Mom in Grange Road every week on the bus. It always seemed to me we had entered a different world when the bus crossed the lights at Parkfield Road going out on the New Road. To the left you could see and smell the smoke from Stewart and Lloyds steel works and on the left there was a row of large advertising boards for huge gear assemblies and other obscure large industrial equipment. The billboards are still there but they sure as heck aren't advertising industrial equipment anymore!

So as a kid that was where the mysterious Black Country started for me.

Mind you in later life I had a friend who used to live on the big old council estate behind the Black Horse pub [long gone] just before Parkfield Road and if you suggested he may have been anything other than Black Country you might have had an argument on your hands!

[WBA1955]

The difference could be seen in the butcher's shop's in Wolverhampton and Dudley too. Dudley had a lot of pig's heads, pig's trotter's and home made faggots.
I had a hot pork sandwich from the Pork Joint in Princes Square, and the crackling was like chewing shoe leather.
The dialect varies as well, I have a Coseley accent, but there is a different twang to it down Cradley and Netherton way, and I have a job understanding people from Ruiton at all.
In Bilston the term of endearment is Blade, in Tipton it's Mush and in Coseley it's C unty. 😂

[WOODLANDSWOLF]

Another photo from the web site that intrigued me. Railways of course!



At first I thought it might be the "old" shed at Stourbridge Junction but it is in fact Oswestry shed.

I bunked both this shed and the adjacent railway works when I was 15. Great day out, got on a Wolverhampton [Low Level] train to Birkenhead, got off at Gobowen and caught the short branch line train to Oswestry. Back home for tea.

It is difficult to believe that Oswestry was once a large rail center as the home of the Cambrian Railroad. It had the loco shed, works and a huge station to serve mid Wales and the Welsh coast.. The station is still there but everything else has gone including all the track ,including the branch line to Gobowen. Sad.

[albion68]

[QUOTE=WOODLANDSWOLF;39738952]Another photo from the web site that intrigued me. Railways of course!



At first I thought it might be the "old" shed at Stourbridge Junction but it is in fact Oswestry shed.

I bunked both this shed and the adjacent railway works when I was 15. Great day out, got on a Wolverhampton [Low Level] train to Birkenhead, got off at Gobowen and caught the short branch line train to Oswestry. Back home for tea.

It is difficult to believe that Oswestry was once a large rail center as the home of the Cambrian Railroad. It had the loco shed, works and a huge station to serve mid Wales and the Welsh coast.. The station is still there but everything else has gone including all the track ,including the branch line to Gobowen. Sad.[haven’t heard that for year’s woods bunked the sheds,great saying.

[WBA1955]

Wolverhampton was a great railway town, and second only to Swindon on the GWR route.
Now the western region has gone from the town and not enough has been done to commemorate it imo.
With more imagination the Metro could have been brought through to Low Level with a lift to High Level. Low level could have been a heritage centre with cafés and bar's and maybe a static loco on exhibition like Moor Street.
Furthermore the Metro would have been perfectly placed to be extended to Bentley Bridge, Wednesfield and even Bloxwich and Lichfield.
I am a big believer in light rail.
As much as I love the old heavy steam loco's, fast clean and regular is the way forward.