Nicoliar calls

[BCram]

All the claims of the SNP letting Thatcher in are complete nonsense – Thatcher was going to get in within six months regardless as the minority Labour government had been struggling for some time, a general election was inevitable and Labour were always getting trampled on by the Conservatives. It was the anti-devolution Labour MPs, who undermined their own government and prevented the majority Scottish opinion from prevailing, that caused the SNP to turn against Labour. And the SNP was quite right to turn against Labour at that point in my opinion and that's even considering in hindsight the ultimate evil and anti Scottish / pro SE England policies of Thatcherism.

Remember Scotland had just been shafted by the Labour government when a 40% rule appeared from nowhere to deny the wish of the Scottish people at the time when a clear majority 'YES' vote for devolution was cast. What were they going to do? 51.6% of the votes were for devolution but it counted for nothing - completely undemocratic but then we are talking about the English so maybe not a total surprise.

Two Ulster Unionist MPs voted with the 1979 vote of no confidence, did the Ulster Unionist Party also 'cause' the downfall of the Labour government and therefore Thatcher to be elected? Or doesn't that fit the agenda?

People love to re-write history though and they just love to post up rubbish on forums in the hope that people will just accept it as truth - and the more gullible reader usually just agrees with it.

That's the point of being a Unionist yes, they helped the Conservatives but as you explained it was the SNP who turned against Labour. The other parties had been voting against Labour as part of the opposition. The SNP changed their support and the rest is history.

You may not like to recall your Tartan Tory roots but it seems obvious that they were getting Tory protest votes against the long years of Labour rule in Scotland under Gordon Wilson. It was a shrewd move by the SNP and undermined the Tory Party in Scotland.

[Deeranged]

Oh ffs, if you had said dinosaurs instead of apes I was here for the day and cancelling the golf.

You'll never know how good this thread cuda got.🤣.........

C'mon j......you know you want to.😁

I had to get to work, some of us still have to because we didn't get the opporchancity to jump on Maggie's boat back in 1979

[Deeranged]

That's the point of being a Unionist yes, they helped the Conservatives but as you explained it was the SNP who turned against Labour. The other parties had been voting against Labour as part of the opposition. The SNP changed their support and the rest is history.

You may not like to recall your Tartan Tory roots but it seems obvious that they were getting Tory protest votes against the long years of Labour rule in Scotland under Gordon Wilson. It was a shrewd move by the SNP and undermined the Tory Party in Scotland.

My main argument is that turning against one party isn't necessarily supporting the other. Yes, they helped bring down Labour but having been treated the way they had been by Labour It's no surprise they did what they did.

[noahrab]

No, they didn't side with the Tories. They voted no confidence in a Labour minority government that was on its knees; the same Labour government that had shafted them earlier that year.

That vote was not a vote for one party or another it was a vote of no confidence in the incumbent government. A massive, massive difference.

Not really interested in where the SNP were derived from. We're all derived from apes but we consider ourselves to be a bit different in evolutionary terms from apes do we not?

They voted with a Tory motion.

An uncomfortable truth.

[noahrab]

That's the point of being a Unionist yes, they helped the Conservatives but as you explained it was the SNP who turned against Labour. The other parties had been voting against Labour as part of the opposition. The SNP changed their support and the rest is history.

You may not like to recall your Tartan Tory roots but it seems obvious that they were getting Tory protest votes against the long years of Labour rule in Scotland under Gordon Wilson. It was a shrewd move by the SNP and undermined the Tory Party in Scotland.

The Nationalists have been trying to airbrush that vote away for years.

Still trying I see.

[BCram]

[QUOTE=Deeranged;39773674]My main argument is that turning against one party isn't necessarily supporting the other. Yes, they helped bring down Labour but having been treated the way they had been by Labour It's no surprise they did what did.

It is the way that the SNP operate though. They pillory Labour and the Lib Democrats at every opportunity for being on the same side of any argument as the Conservatives. Labour and the others oppose Conservative policies all the time but the SNP would have you believe they represent the same political ideas. It is quite depressing how everything comes down to independence.

[grantzer]

[QUOTE=BCram;39773797]

My main argument is that turning against one party isn't necessarily supporting the other. Yes, they helped bring down Labour but having been treated the way they had been by Labour It's no surprise they did what did.

It is the way that the SNP operate though. They pillory Labour and the Lib Democrats at every opportunity for being on the same side of any argument as the Conservatives. Labour and the others oppose Conservative policies all the time but the SNP would have you believe they represent the same political ideas. It is quite depressing how everything comes down to independence.

My letterbox has been bombarded in the last few weeks with leaflets from all parties. Every main party except one was focussed on independence. The only one that never mentioned it was the SNP.......

[Deeranged]

[QUOTE=grantzer;39773826]

My letterbox has been bombarded in the last few weeks with leaflets from all parties. Every main party except one was focussed on independence. The only one that never mentioned it was the SNP.......

That's because the big English parties are cacking it, more concerned about stopping the SNP's march toward independence than pushing themselves forward. Not one of them was able to present one policy that would help Scotland, not a single one.

Indyref 2 is coming and I've a feeling it'll be the right result this time.

[BCram]

As long as the referendum asks do you want independence , Yes or No being the options for answering, I will be content. Keep the politicians out of any interpretation and let the people decide. 50% of 70% is 35% of the electorate, so maybe the right result is still NO!

[Deeranged]

50% of 70% is 35% of the electorate, so maybe the right result is still NO!

That's the type of thinking that did for Callaghan's government.