Nicoliar calls

[BCram]

That's the type of thinking that did for Callaghan's government.

Exactly. Funny, I think both sides of the argument have good points to make. Makes a difference how you decide to vote when you know you have to vote for what you want, rather voting to stop what you don't want.

[islaydarkblue]

Exactly. Funny, I think both sides of the argument have good points to make. Makes a difference how you decide to vote when you know you have to vote for what you want, rather voting to stop what you don't want.

About four years I sent an email to my MP Brendan O’Hara who is the SNP MP for Argyll and Bute asking him what he would do if Scotland became an independent country as he would lose his seat at Westminster.
He replied “We voted as a group in favour of Scotland becoming an independent country”.
Therefore the SNP MPs at Westminster have to do as their leader instructs even if it means losing their job.

[BCram]

Islay, if you doubt the wisdom of independence, like me, all you can do is ask questions and evaluate the answers. That applies to both sides. Being confrontational seems , to me to be unlikely to change opinions, either way. It will be interesting to see what the final voting totals are forthe different parties. I suspect the SNP vote will be roughly similar to what it has been for years but there will be a bit of a drop for the Conservatives and Lib Dems and a boost for Labour and the Greens.

[Deeranged]

About four years I sent an email to my MP Brendan O’Hara who is the SNP MP for Argyll and Bute asking him what he would do if Scotland became an independent country as he would lose his seat at Westminster.
He replied “We voted as a group in favour of Scotland becoming an independent country”.
Therefore the SNP MPs at Westminster have to do as their leader instructs even if it means losing their job.

No, they comply with party policy they don't do as their leader tells them. The ultimate aim of the SNP is to achieve independence from England's United Kingdom - that's been the aim since its inception. Obviously if Scotland becomes independent it has to surrender its seats in the UK government. That's the way it would have to be and not Sturgeon's order.

Sturgeon isn't only leader of the SNP in Holyrood, she's leader of the SNP. The SNP MPs in Westminster are members of the same SNP that SNP MSPs are members of and they have the same leader. So Westminster MPs have to toe the party line. That's not massively different from the linesman trying to get into Holyrood, he's leader of the scummy Tories in Scotland, and will become an MSP without even trying, however he's still a member of the scummy Conservative party led by the incompetent puppet Boris Johnson.

It's not difficult to understand.

[jdfc]

No, they comply with party policy they don't do as their leader tells them. The ultimate aim of the SNP is to achieve independence from England's United Kingdom - that's been the aim since its inception. Obviously if Scotland becomes independent it has to surrender its seats in the UK government. That's the way it would have to be and not Sturgeon's order.

Sturgeon isn't only leader of the SNP in Holyrood, she's leader of the SNP. The SNP MPs in Westminster are members of the same SNP that SNP MSPs are members of and they have the same leader. So Westminster MPs have to toe the party line. That's not massively different from the linesman trying to get into Holyrood, he's leader of the scummy Tories in Scotland, and will become an MSP without even trying, however he's still a member of the scummy Conservative party led by the incompetent puppet Boris Johnson.

It's not difficult to understand.

Deeranged, what do you think independence will mean for Scotland, and I’m not looking for the normal nonsense, “we will be free from Westminster, we will control our own taxes, we won’t be subsiding the UK”, I’m looking for benefits for each individual, job benefits etc, it’s a genuine question not one to trick you or an argument, I am really struggling to think of any benefits we will see in my lifetime, and selfishly I couldn’t care less about life after I’ve gone

[noahrab]

Deeranged, what do you think independence will mean for Scotland, and I’m not looking for the normal nonsense, “we will be free from Westminster, we will control our own taxes, we won’t be subsiding the UK”, I’m looking for benefits for each individual, job benefits etc, it’s a genuine question not one to trick you or an argument, I am really struggling to think of any benefits we will see in my lifetime, and selfishly I couldn’t care less about life after I’ve gone

Controlling the economic levers.

No one has our resources.

Norway.

[noahrab]

No, they comply with party policy they don't do as their leader tells them. The ultimate aim of the SNP is to achieve independence from England's United Kingdom - that's been the aim since its inception. Obviously if Scotland becomes independent it has to surrender its seats in the UK government. That's the way it would have to be and not Sturgeon's order.

Sturgeon isn't only leader of the SNP in Holyrood, she's leader of the SNP. The SNP MPs in Westminster are members of the same SNP that SNP MSPs are members of and they have the same leader. So Westminster MPs have to toe the party line. That's not massively different from the linesman trying to get into Holyrood, he's leader of the scummy Tories in Scotland, and will become an MSP without even trying, however he's still a member of the scummy Conservative party led by the incompetent puppet Boris Johnson.

It's not difficult to understand.

The SNP do as they’re told. Every time without exception.

Plenty rebels in Labour and Conservative party.

They allow and encourage free thought.

You have to laugh when the SNP go on about ‘branch offices’ when everything they do or say is passed down from Murrel towers.

[Deeranged]

Deeranged, what do you think independence will mean for Scotland, and I’m not looking for the normal nonsense, “we will be free from Westminster, we will control our own taxes, we won’t be subsiding the UK”, I’m looking for benefits for each individual, job benefits etc, it’s a genuine question not one to trick you or an argument, I am really struggling to think of any benefits we will see in my lifetime, and selfishly I couldn’t care less about life after I’ve gone

I'd throw that question right back at you. Why do you think we will be so massively worse off if we were being led by a corrupt Scottish government rather than a corrupt UK one?

I just want Scotland to be recognised as a free and independent country in my lifetime, ideally a republic because I dislike one family having so much wealth and influence whilst effectively doing nothing but existing. I genuinely don't see independence having a massive effect on the individual in the short to medium term (higher earners might need to pay more tax) however longer term I think the individual will benefit from the greater autonomy the nation will have in trade dealings internationally. My hope is that we'd become a more prosperous country or at least be as prosperous as we are now. I've never argued that I know how to achieve that, I leave that to the people that know how to.

My experiences working in England with mostly English but also Scottish, Irish and Welsh counterparts has shaped my thinking about England massively. The constant feeling of superiority that the English demonstrate at close quarters with people of the other UK nations is shocking, and it runs through their entire nation. This affects other nationalities too, the English firmly believe England is superior to all nations. They are a nation that believes England should be for the English and nobody else is welcome.

One thing I will say is that I've not seen too much of that attitude from English people settled here in Scotland, in fact I know plenty that would welcome an independent Scotland. I've said in the past that a good friend of mine who was a Professor of Economics at St. Andrews University was absolutely of the opinion that Scotland would be better off outside of the union - and he was English.

[Deeranged]

The SNP do as they’re told. Every time without exception.

Plenty rebels in Labour and Conservative party.

They allow and encourage free thought.

You have to laugh when the SNP go on about ‘branch offices’ when everything they do or say is passed down from Murrel towers.

Infighting good

Unity of purpose bad

Class

[eric_sinclair]

Deeranged, what do you think independence will mean for Scotland, and I’m not looking for the normal nonsense, “we will be free from Westminster, we will control our own taxes, we won’t be subsiding the UK”, I’m looking for benefits for each individual, job benefits etc, it’s a genuine question not one to trick you or an argument, I am really struggling to think of any benefits we will see in my lifetime, and selfishly I couldn’t care less about life after I’ve gone

Mibbe Wales will leave first, what happens then.
The bit I can't get my head around is anyone thinking we can't run our own country.
Of course it wud take time but why the hell not?
I'm pretty chilled either way if it happens great if no life goes on.
Benefits I see is make our own decisions good and bad, nae need for war choose our own government to run everything, also being a small country we could even see a new party emerge as imo most we have just now Inc snp are hopeless.
I love going down south, great country and people and will continue to do so.
I vote SNP so we mibbe get a shot at doing it alone, no part oh any cult and only saw braveheart twice.
I respect your opinion poss based on your age and job etc.
Ireland seems a cool place, needed bailed out I know but seems fine now, can we know do the same?
Just a thought