Maurice Ross Sacked

[ulaggypie]

Words fail me.

I remember there being absolute outrage on here at the suggestion some Notts fans were sometimes not very politically correct and a bit racist, this thread is all you need to scan through for evidence.

Firstly, Maurice Ross chose to resign according to himself, so any outrage directed at the club for "over reacting" is pretty much null and void.

Secondly, I've not seen ulaggypie on here for a while but I'm glad he's posted some sense in this thread.

The comment was absolutely racist, it was made because Enzio is black, full stop. If it had been a white player that Maurice had questions over their mobility he wouldn't have used a stereotype that's used for african players because it would have made no sense, for example, the comment would never have been made about fellow dutch winger Julian Jenner no matter what you thought of him as a footballer.

Using a racist stereotype doesn't seem as bad as using someone's race and a profanity, or using a racist term to me, but it's not really my place to judge the severity and a bit of a pointless discussion, racism is racism no matter the level and the longer people hang on to "ah well he didn't mean it in a bad way" or "oh it wasn't that bad" kind of talk the longer it remains.

If you throw a stone at a window and it breaks you can't defend the person that threw it by saying "at least they didn't throw a brick", the window is still broken

Cheers bloke! I don't post often at all, and did all but disappear for a long while. There was a certain element of toxicity on NCM that I just didn't care for. It might make me a "snowflake", but I can and do choose where I want to spend my time, and for me, it was better spent elsewhere. I also used to support someone with work to Notts matches, and when he died, I lost my taste for football then. I've not actually been back since the last much I went to with him, sum 8 years ago. Mrs Trew actually offered me a free ticket if I felt ready to return, and I just never really got around to it!

To get back to the topic at hand - it's always been a case of knowing your audience. Banter with your mates is one thing, but a football club is a business. If someone made the same kind of comment inside a professional working environment, he'd be lucky to be given the chance to resign. It was very much a stupid thing to say, and made his position untenable. The fact he resigned is a credit to himself and sparred the club a difficult decision and potentially bad PR.

Looks good on paper I'm not sure what it actually means.
So if he calls a white player lazy it's ok.
But because the player is black he cant allude to him being lazy?
Yes a wrong lazy analogy was used which can be interpreted as being rascist by some.
Like I said before would it have been ok to compare his mobility to that of captain tom..?
Your bit about a stone and a brick sounds lovely but in reality is BS..
Of course there are different levels of abuse whether it be racial or otherwise.
I Still dont know why they couldn't sit down over a coffee (black or white) and sort it out.
Seems so much simpler to do it that way and more constructive as the issue seems to be about race now and not whether Ross had a point about Enzios capabilities as a player?
Just a thought Freeman have you ever experienced racism or read about but in a book.
The reason I ask is simply because there are very different levels of racism from low level water of a duck's back, angst to outright fury.
So yes it does matter if it was a stone that was thrown or a brick ....
What a really stupid and ignorant analogy...infact world beating...
But I wouldn't want you removed from your job for using it,I would hope you could learn from it.

The issue isn't the fact he called Enzio lazy, or expressed doubts about his mobility. As I've mentioned a few times, and as Freeman25 also said, the comment was made specifically because of the colour of Enzio's skin.

Your example about Sir Captain Tom isn't relevant to this. There's a point that could be made that using Sir Captain Tom as an example of poor mobility is offensive in of itself, with regards to infirmity. But that's not what this thread is about. Using Sir Captain Tom as an example doesn't work the same way if you were talking about an English player with poor mobility, because both are English.

Football is full of examples of this kind of lazy stereotyping with racial overtones. How often do football fans refer to a player of colour that's big and muscly as a "beast". And it's little stuff like this that perpetuates the more overt racism. There's a lot of pushback, both from football fans in general and from people in the wider world. "woke police", "PC culture", etc etc. Most of that just comes down to ignorance, people not wanting to accept there are consequences, or people who really need to get some new jokes. If your* jokes need to rely on old, offensive stereotypes, then maybe you just aren't funny.


*When I say your, I'm not talking about you specifically.

[BigFatPie]

Someone on the board said where is biker and others after the win, they have gone silent. Well I remain unconvinced about ownership and leadership but will be happy to say I was wrong when promotion happens this year.

However that’s not what I am here to post about. John Cleese recently left this country to live abroad saying what an awful place Britain had become where unless you agreed with the generally accepted opinion you were unable to say anything outside that narrow view point. I consider the sacking of Ross completely unacceptable and a reflection of our politically correct society and a poor reflection on our owners. And while we are at it the taking of the knee is nothing more than pandering to another politically correct notion. Football authorities could and should have done a lot more a lot earlier. Where are the massive fines and points deductions which should have taken place years ago, quietly pushed aside for “the good of the game”. I dislike racism of any kind but our current politically correct attitude is also unacceptable and is typified by the sacking of Ross. This is my last post as I am done with this board and after 50 years Notts as well. Bye Bye

Bye.

[nw6pie]

I’m a bit baffled that some people can’t see/won’t acknowledge that the statement was racist.

“Enzio is running like a 40-year-old man” - not racist

“Enzio is running like a 40-year-old man - has he got one of those African passports?” - racist, based purely on the fact that the player is Black.

The players took the right step to report the comment; the club made the right decision to say it was a sackable offence; and Mo Ross made the right decision to apologise and accept he’d made a serious mistake. End of story.

[magpie_mania]

Cheers bloke! I don't post often at all, and did all but disappear for a long while. There was a certain element of toxicity on NCM that I just didn't care for. It might make me a "snowflake", but I can and do choose where I want to spend my time, and for me, it was better spent elsewhere. I also used to support someone with work to Notts matches, and when he died, I lost my taste for football then. I've not actually been back since the last much I went to with him, sum 8 years ago. Mrs Trew actually offered me a free ticket if I felt ready to return, and I just never really got around to it!

To get back to the topic at hand - it's always been a case of knowing your audience. Banter with your mates is one thing, but a football club is a business. If someone made the same kind of comment inside a professional working environment, he'd be lucky to be given the chance to resign. It was very much a stupid thing to say, and made his position untenable. The fact he resigned is a credit to himself and sparred the club a difficult decision and potentially bad PR.




The issue isn't the fact he called Enzio lazy, or expressed doubts about his mobility. As I've mentioned a few times, and as Freeman25 also said, the comment was made specifically because of the colour of Enzio's skin.

Your example about Sir Captain Tom isn't relevant to this. There's a point that could be made that using Sir Captain Tom as an example of poor mobility is offensive in of itself, with regards to infirmity. But that's not what this thread is about. Using Sir Captain Tom as an example doesn't work the same way if you were talking about an English player with poor mobility, because both are English.

Football is full of examples of this kind of lazy stereotyping with racial overtones. How often do football fans refer to a player of colour that's big and muscly as a "beast". And it's little stuff like this that perpetuates the more overt racism. There's a lot of pushback, both from football fans in general and from people in the wider world. "woke police", "PC culture", etc etc. Most of that just comes down to ignorance, people not wanting to accept there are consequences, or people who really need to get some new jokes. If your* jokes need to rely on old, offensive stereotypes, then maybe you just aren't funny.


*When I say your, I'm not talking about you specifically.

Good to see you back !

But don't get caught up by the trolls.

'The way Enzio has gone about this whole episode shows poor character' tells us more about the poster than either Enzio or Ross

[ulaggypie]

Good to see you back !

But don't get caught up by the trolls.

'The way Enzio has gone about this whole episode shows poor character' tells us more about the poster than either Enzio or Ross

Oh, for sure, on both counts!

[magpie_mania]

I’m a bit baffled that some people can’t see/won’t acknowledge that the statement was racist.

“Enzio is running like a 40-year-old man” - not racist

“Enzio is running like a 40-year-old man - has he got one of those African passports?” - racist, based purely on the fact that the player is Black.

The players took the right step to report the comment; the club made the right decision to say it was a sackable offence; and Mo Ross made the right decision to apologise and accept he’d made a serious mistake. End of story.

So am I.

It's pretty clear to me. Your example is really clear.

[flukieireland]

100% a racist comment. As freeman, ulaggy and others have articulated.

[TSANHO]

‘ The comment was absolutely racist, it was made because Enzio is black, full stop’

It’s not full stop at all. There aren’t half some condescending posts on here.

The comment was born out of ignorance, not racism. Enzio is black (fact)....Enzio looks like the majority of Africans (fact, in the same way i look like the majority of Brits/Europeans )....There are many Africans with doctored passports with fake ages (fact). The only thing that isn’t a fact is that Enzio is not of course African. So, is it racist or offensive to suggest Enzio is African...no, not in my mind, just ignorant.

There’s a quite a big difference between ignorance and racism and although ignorant and stupid, it’s not racist. Ignorance can lead to racism of course, but I think in this instance Maurice Ross has been hard done by.

[AfriPie]

First time poster here...but can't resist adding two cents on this.

I live in Kenya and one of the biggest jokes made about athletes is about fake birth certificates (so they can compete a junior levels for longer and get noticed by sponsors). It's not a great comment by MR, but in my book also far from the worst. In any other walk of life, I would expected this situation to be handled through an internal disciplinary, without the perpetrator being sacked or resigning.

But I think the big picture here is that racist abuse (going way further) is still a big issue in football. I suspect everyone on this board has witnessed it...and it's not the people being overly sensitive, snowflakes getting offended, kind. Personally, I can't think of an instance outside of football where I have witnessed the level of abuse that I've seen hurled freely, typically by an individual or at worst a very small group of fans, at games.

There are a lot of issues with the leadership of the modern game, but I think that the focus from top to bottom on kicking racism out is right and necessary.

If there was a continuum for these things, my guess is that most of us would agree that this was a relatively low level offense. But you can only set the tone by what you can control. In this case, is it OK for a coach on the touchline to use a racist trope to express his frustration about his own player?

I have sympathy for MR. It feels like he's falling foul of example setting and that far worse comments will be made and go unpunished every week. But I can't escape agreeing that the zero tolerance policy is right. There shouldn't be any ambiguity that racism has no place in the stands, on the touch-line, on pitch or on social media. And if you draw the line anywhere other than zero-tolerance, you have a minefield to navigate. From his actions this week, I feel like he get's it. I hope this doesn't stop him getting other opportunities in the game - this should not be career ending and he certainly seemed to have a drive and intensity that we've been missing.

As for his frustrations with the players...that was plain to see in his interview last week. And frankly who amongst us hasn't had them this season?

[ulaggypie]

‘ The comment was absolutely racist, it was made because Enzio is black, full stop’

It’s not full stop at all. There aren’t half some condescending posts on here.

The comment was born out of ignorance, not racism. Enzio is black (fact)....Enzio looks like the majority of Africans (fact, in the same way i look like the majority of Brits/Europeans )....There are many Africans with doctored passports with fake ages (fact). The only thing that isn’t a fact is that Enzio is not of course African. So, is it racist or offensive to suggest Enzio is African...no, not in my mind, just ignorant.

There’s a quite a big difference between ignorance and racism and although ignorant and stupid, it’s not racist. Ignorance can lead to racism of course, but I think in this instance Maurice Ross has been hard done by.

Wow. Just wow.