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Thread: Rros

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    The referendum will happen. Don't think it'll be the result that I want but I'll stay hopeful.
    And then what? Another one and another one till itís a Yes?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmac View Post
    And then what? Another one and another one till it’s a Yes?
    I doubt it. I was more than happy to let sleeping dogs lie after the first one then the English dragged us out of the EU against the clear wish of a majority in Scotland. That handed the SNP a reason to demand another referendum and I agree with that demand on that basis.

    Next one's a no and it should be shelved completely but given Brexit massively changed the dynamic, and that it might have made a significant difference to the vote, there should be another one.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    I doubt it. I was more than happy to let sleeping dogs lie after the first one then the English dragged us out of the EU against the clear wish of a majority in Scotland. That handed the SNP a reason to demand another referendum and I agree with that demand on that basis.

    Next one's a no and it should be shelved completely but given Brexit massively changed the dynamic, and that it might have made a significant difference to the vote, there should be another one.

    It was a Uk vote on Brexit.

    Democracy won again.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    I doubt it. I was more than happy to let sleeping dogs lie after the first one then the English dragged us out of the EU against the clear wish of a majority in Scotland. That handed the SNP a reason to demand another referendum and I agree with that demand on that basis.

    Next one's a no and it should be shelved completely but given Brexit massively changed the dynamic, and that it might have made a significant difference to the vote, there should be another one.
    So to be clear, you think Scotland voted to stay in the UK on the conditional basis that if it disagrees with a UK decision on something in the future then a referendum should follow?

    I find it odd that the call is to leave a union of nations weíve been in for over 300 years but to rejoin a union of nations weíve been in for about 45 years as part of the first union.

    When you vote to stay in a union you vote to abide by the majority decisions taken by that union. Whether you like them or not.

    I should add, any Scot who now claims that they didnít know the Tories were the way they are should be banned from voting on the grounds of extreme stupidity.
    Last edited by hmac; 09-05-2021 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmac View Post
    So to be clear, you think Scotland voted to stay in the UK on the conditional basis that if it disagrees with a UK decision on something in the future then a referendum should follow?

    I find it odd that the call is to leave a union of nations we’ve been in for over 300 years but to rejoin a union of nations we’ve been in for about 45 years as part of the first union.

    When you vote to stay in a union you vote to abide by the majority decisions taken by that union. Whether you like them or not.

    I should add, any Scot who now claims that they didn’t know the Tories were the way they are should be banned from voting on the grounds of extreme stupidity.
    I'm sure you'll agree that Tory rule is bad for Scotland. I'm sure you'll also agree that the Tories are entrenched as the only party likely to win a UK general election as there is no viable opposition to them. I'm also sure you'll agree that this will be the case regardless of how Scotland thinks and votes. For me this just means we have no voice in the UK. If we have no voice in the UK should we not try to change so that we do have a voice at least as a nation?

    In the Brexit vote breakdown it was very clear that the vast majority of Scottish voters wanted to remain in the EU but because of Tory England that vote counted for nothing - another clear statement by a voiceless nation. Whether or not an independent Scotland would land back in the EU isn't known, but in any referendum on the subject the voice of Scotland would at least be heard.

    Independence would give Scotland a voice and allow its people to be heard, but if those people once again decide against having a voice then fair enough.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    I'm sure you'll agree that Tory rule is bad for Scotland. I'm sure you'll also agree that the Tories are entrenched as the only party likely to win a UK general election as there is no viable opposition to them. I'm also sure you'll agree that this will be the case regardless of how Scotland thinks and votes. For me this just means we have no voice in the UK. If we have no voice in the UK should we not try to change so that we do have a voice at least as a nation?

    In the Brexit vote breakdown it was very clear that the vast majority of Scottish voters wanted to remain in the EU but because of Tory England that vote counted for nothing - another clear statement by a voiceless nation. Whether or not an independent Scotland would land back in the EU isn't known, but in any referendum on the subject the voice of Scotland would at least be heard.

    Independence would give Scotland a voice and allow its people to be heard, but if those people once again decide against having a voice then fair enough.
    I disagree we have no voice. Weíre in charge of multiple key areas of our own governance, including all the major areas like health, education, law, economy, housing and environmental matters.

    We share defence which I like, and we have a voice at Westminster. We have done long before the snp grouping decided to make a mockery of it.

    Reading above you can just as easily fix your issues with a proper and accountable Labour Party based on a fairer and equal society.

    I personally think itís incredibly selfish to abandon the working class people of the north of England to the Tories.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmac View Post
    I disagree we have no voice. We’re in charge of multiple key areas of our own governance, including all the major areas like health, education, law, economy, housing and environmental matters.

    We share defence which I like, and we have a voice at Westminster. We have done long before the snp grouping decided to make a mockery of it.

    Reading above you can just as easily fix your issues with a proper and accountable Labour Party based on a fairer and equal society.

    I personally think it’s incredibly selfish to abandon the working class people of the north of England to the Tories.
    A strong Labour party would be my preference if we stay in the UK, which of course we will, however a strong Labour party is now a dream - too much damage has been inflicted. If a good socialist alternative was to emerge I'd consider that.

    My ideal for Scotland though is independence under a fair socialist government.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    A strong Labour party would be my preference if we stay in the UK, which of course we will, however a strong Labour party is now a dream - too much damage has been inflicted. If a good socialist alternative was to emerge I'd consider that.

    My ideal for Scotland though is independence under a fair socialist government.
    My preference is for the minority, yessers, to abide by the majority decision and get on with it. Oh and I donít want to see people castigated for being happy within the union, itís very bitter.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    A strong Labour party would be my preference if we stay in the UK, which of course we will, however a strong Labour party is now a dream - too much damage has been inflicted. If a good socialist alternative was to emerge I'd consider that.

    My ideal for Scotland though is independence under a fair socialist government.
    Tell me what currency we will use, tell me will there be a hard border between Scotland and Northern Ireland, tell me if we will have the same voting system for Holyrood as we have at present, tell me what will happen to our fishing waters and offshore energy, tell me how a country that has a budget deficit and a small tax base will survive? Comparisons with other countries will be an acceptable reply. At least their finances could be examined, and the likelihood of Scotland emulating them could be assessed.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    Tell me what currency we will use, tell me will there be a hard border between Scotland and Northern Ireland, tell me if we will have the same voting system for Holyrood as we have at present, tell me what will happen to our fishing waters and offshore energy, tell me how a country that has a budget deficit and a small tax base will survive? Comparisons with other countries will be an acceptable reply. At least their finances could be examined, and the likelihood of Scotland emulating them could be assessed.
    In order asked...

    Groats
    Yes, itís called the Irish Sea
    Yes, never a majority so always compromise
    Fishing haha
    Offshore Energy - fossil or sustainable?
    Magic Beans of course

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