Euro 2020

[LawSteelman]

Utterly dismal stuff from Scotland and the fact that as usual you’re getting folk saying “unlucky, no shame in losing, just great to be there, things are improving” is equally dismal.

Scotland as a national football team are not improving. They have some really good young players in Turnbull, Tierney, Patterson, McGinn, Gilmour and Robertson but unfortunately for them they are surrounded by a combination of bog standard SPFL and English Championship level players. That is never going to cut it at International level.

When you add in a very negative, defensive manager and the usual defeatist Scottish mentality which forever tries to find positives in outright failure then you are never going to achieve anything of note. Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have all managed to outperform Scotland at major tournaments by reaching the knockout stages at some point or other, whilst Scotland squeeze in via the back door after 23 years and fail to register a single win and score only one goal despite playing two games at home. They will never get a better chance, regardless of opposition.

But hey who cares? It was great to be there and the Tartan Army got a weekend jaunt down to Wembley to flash their knobs and fall into fountains p1ssed up. Ho-Ho-Ho! Wha’s like us?

If Scotland ever want to get anywhere at that level, they need to ditch the loser mentality and the drink culture.

[Handsome_Devil]

As ever you seem to confuse a general attitude of where we (Scotland or Motherwell) want to go with an honest appraisal of how we do with the players at our disposal right now. And as ever I'm utterly bemused by you both calling the players rubbish while criticising them for not doing better.

Imagine the All England Club or RandA decide the usual tennis players/golfers appearing again and again is getting stale so they'll open up a parallel qualifying for a couple of club players to join Wimbledon or the Open. Whoever wins that charity place deserves to be there but there's little point in complaining when they get hounded 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 or struggle to break 90...

Was good just to be there? Yes, it is was infinitely better than missing out in a major tournament played in our own stadium.

Are we good enough? Clearly not, no one who has actually watched in the last couple of years would say otherwise.

Did this team do as well as it could? Probably, give or take a couple of decisions. We were McGinn choosing his right foot away from being 30 mins from qualification which is a miracle for a team with no attack and barely any central defence.

Are we getting better? Definitely. We have a genuinely world class player for the first time in ages in Robertson, Tierney and a few others are definitely good enough plus there's Gilmour, Patterson, Turnbull etc who might join them.

[LawSteelman]

I didn’t say the players were rubbish, I said that there is a core of really good young players but also some pretty bog standard ones.

The problem is that the wrong players were picked to start in two of the three games. Gilmour should have started against the Czechs, as should Turnbull, the latter certainly should have started last night. And why persist with the utterly hopeless Dykes ahead of Nisbett?

The tactics and selection by the manager did nothing to help Scotland’s cause and neither did the usual Scottish loser mentality which has plagued this country for decades. The ready made excuse of “we’re a small country it’s just great to be there” is pathetic, something that we as a club are all too guilty of too. When you see Wales and Rep of Ireland’s performances at tournaments over the years - both smaller nations - then it really does just hit home how poor Scotland’s performance was and how low the bar is set.

I’m not confusing anything. I do not believe that the return by Scotland in this tournament was anywhere near acceptable. Two games at home yet only one goal scored and only one point registered with the two losses against sides who will be nowhere near winning the tournament.

Your reply is the standard answer far too many Scotland fans or our fans at Motherwell give in response to failure. “Ach well we didn’t expect anything anyway, at least we were there”. It’s the same as you and others in our support after a no show against one of the Old Firm shrugging it off with nonsense about punching above our weight and comparing the budgets.

Until Scotland rids itself of this mentality then it will never achieve anything.

[Handsome_Devil]

We clearly just have very different perspectives...you say this Scotland side isn't good enough and complain, I say this Scotland side isn't good enough so think them coming within 30 minutes against the WC finalists of proving me wrong is them playing to the best of their ability and say fair effort.

If you've not made a tournament in two decades and end that drought in what was barely more than a raffle, you have no right to expect anything when there because all the evidence in the world has already shown you're not good enough. All these Championship players are not going to suddenly become great (though Hanley did a fair transformation) just because they're at a tournament.

SOD (career highlights: 3rd in the SPFL, second-tier winner, Challenge Cup runner-up) was up against Ivan Perisic (2 Bundesligas, 3 German Cups, 1 Serie A, a Champions League and 100+ caps for the WC runners-up) for example, telling him to 'get rid the loser mentality' is not going to change the fact he was always going to be lucky to leave with his dignity intact.

[sieb1886]

Looks like he's not only a secret 'Ranger' but also a 'Little Englander' too

[LawSteelman]

HD, I didn’t expect Scotland to win the tournament or reach the latter stages, that would just be wild. I just don’t think it was unreasonable in a group where they have two home games to be able to do better than one point, one goal scored and a GD of -4.

Sieb1886, whether in jest or not, that patter is p1sh and I’d even go so far as to say part of the problem that Scottish football has. Too twisted, bitter and unable to see past it’s dislike of Rangers (why even mention them here?) and England.

[Handsome_Devil]

The hope was certainly there but as seen in club games, home advantage something else in an empty stadium.

One point was par for me, had we drawn with the Czechs then lost the next two I don't think many folk would have thought that unreasonable.

[sieb1886]

LSM

Glad to see your 'non sense of humour' syndrome hasn't been affected by 18 months of lockdown !

[LawSteelman]

There was nothing humorous about your comments.

At best they are puerile and stupid and the “little Englander” remark has a nasty undertone which is totally uncalled for.

This is a football forum and I was discussing Scotland’s efforts in Euro 2020, I’m not interested in politics.

[wanderlust]

Best I've seen Scotland play for a while. Clarke's done a decent job IMO and I thought the players - regardless of their relative ability - pulled their tripe out for the man and the nation. Definitely improving and with a touch more quality in certain positions Scotland could well rise up the rankings. Struggling to see how folk can complain.