ORTA Interview - Thanking Mr WTF for his Opinions

[WTF11]

For many being objective is when writing things like summaries or news articles but being able to feel free to be subjective for arguments and opinions stated on Forums.

An objective claim is a statement about a factual matter,one that can be proved true or false. A subjective claim on the other hand is not a factual matter,it is an expression of belief, opinion, or personal preference ultimately a biased expression.

I certainly won't knock Orta or his role at the club as I don't know the working financial conditions imposed on him or his remits on recruitment within his time at Leeds.

But we do know he listens,as do all the clubs staff to Objective & Subjective statements which has created something special to be very proud of.

Objectivity in this context refers to the ability to separate the obvious achievements of the team as fielded during this and last season, something which can be objectively analysed, and ascribing that success to the recruitment efforts of our DoF, a subjective action based on emotion as opposed to rational analysis.

What proof (as opposed to opinion) is there that Orta listens, given that despite the undoubted influence of Bielsa the club remains susceptible to the appointment of crocks (Llorente), non-entities (JKA) and the granting of over-inflated contracts to players of questionable value (Costa)?

[WTF11]

"I certainly won't knock Orta or his role at the club as I don't know the working financial conditions imposed on him or his remits on recruitment within his time at Leeds.".....

Hmmm......so you presume that he wasn't aware of those conditions before he was appointed, and that when he did, he still saw fit to acquire 30 players in his first season as DoF of whom 4 made any contribution to 1st team performances, and considered that was adequate return on the clubs investment in him as DoF? If that was true I would have walked before being responsible for such a catastrophic performance (but then again, I have principles and morals).

[ozleeds]

Ohh how simply we forget and forgive he also brought in a lot of

[WTF11]

Ohh how simply we forget and forgive he also brought in a lot of

Yeah, but apparently we're a fickle bunch!😉

[joellufcprice]

In his first season as DoF (2017/18), Orta "brought in" (all on his own, given the merry-go-round of managers at the time), Bellusci, Antonsson, Shaugnessy, Murphy, Peackock Farrell, Pearce, Buoy, Denton, Stevens, Lassogga, Dalby, Anita, Cameron, Borthwick-Jackson, Ideguchi, Forshaw, Jansson, Saiz, Roberts, Alioski, Sacko, De Bock, Klich, Cibicki, Grot, Ekuban, Halme, Wiedwald, Gomes. Thirty players, of whom 4 (Jansson, Saiz, Alioski and Klich) have made any significant contribution to the 1st team, the majority never having played for that hallowed team.

Once Bielsa arrived a year later, things improved (Bamford, Harrison and a couple of others), but we were still able to introduce such gems as Bogusz, Izzy Brown, Baker, O'Kane, Casilla.

Of those you mention, all but Bamford, Meslier and Harrison have arrived in the last 12 months (Llorente, Koch, Raphinha, Rodrigo), or have been insignificant in 1st team contribution (this season or previously). Hardly indicative of a DoF or a scouting operation that is generating a creditable hit rate. (and to refer to post #3, just how long does a DoF need to "settle in?)

I don't think you get the fact that these days players are also bought to then move on for a profit. You've got to look at players bought directly to impact the first team and decide on whether he has been a success.

[Monaco_Totty]

Yeah, but apparently we're a fickle bunch!😉

Many new business owners start with a goal of "being successful." But what does "being successful" really mean in football ?

The simplest and most accurate answer is that business success is different for everyone. As with everything else for your business, it's up to you to define success.

I'm now happy as a travelling fan spending a shed full over the years for sure.

Every business has its ups and downs but if your company can show annual profits that exceed losses, you are surely a success ?

So on that equation like you why is the Rad not happy then with Orta ?

Is it Orta,the scouts or the players not showing their early promise.

Who would Mum blame for not delivering her can of chosen beans from the Supermarche at 10am yesterday ?

The driver,the packer,the system order processors,the staffing agency or the owner ?

Well the driver apologised but blamed the packer and as for his delivery being late stated he was on time for work but the packers were slow causing his route drop offs being late.The beans delivered to her were not the Heinz quality she had expected or hoped for - such is life dealing with 57 varieties in life.

[LeedsFTW]

I think I understand, Orta and other managers at Leeds, all signings success or failure, solely Orta's responsibility.

Orta and Biesla, bad signings Ortas fault, good signing Biesla's credit only.

[WTF11]

I don't think you get the fact that these days players are also bought to then move on for a profit. You've got to look at players bought directly to impact the first team and decide on whether he has been a success.

Joel, I "get" the revenue stream that players bought might represent. City and Liverpool are past masters at buying low and selling high, with no intention of actually developing many players into their 1st team squad. Trouble is, apart from a very small number of those I named, they are still on Leeds payroll, as the clubs they have been loaned out to aren't picking up all the loanee players wages, and of those sold, none have shown profit that offsets the clubs investment and most have been sold at a loss. All the figures are available, for those who are prepared to take the blinkers off and look.

I say again, of the 30 players brought in in his first year, 4 have been of direct impact to the 1st team, not good enough.

[WTF11]

Many new business owners start with a goal of "being successful." But what does "being successful" really mean in football ?

The simplest and most accurate answer is that business success is different for everyone. As with everything else for your business, it's up to you to define success.

I'm now happy as a travelling fan spending a shed full over the years for sure.

Every business has its ups and downs but if your company can show annual profits that exceed losses, you are surely a success ?

So on that equation like you why is the Rad not happy then with Orta ?

Is it Orta,the scouts or the players not showing their early promise.

Who would Mum blame for not delivering her can of chosen beans from the Supermarche at 10am yesterday ?

The driver,the packer,the system order processors,the staffing agency or the owner ?

Well the driver apologised but blamed the packer and as for his delivery being late stated he was on time for work but the packers were slow causing his route drop offs being late.The beans delivered to her were not the Heinz quality she had expected or hoped for - such is life dealing with 57 varieties in life.

To answer your supermarket delivery query, she would blame the supermarket where the goods were "shopped" and the anonymous individuals concerned, and the driver as the face of the company.

Note. Harry Truman, USA President, had a sign on his desk "The buck stops here", signifying that he takes overall responsibility for what happens in the USA on his watch, rather than adopting sloping shoulders and trying to escape the consequences of his actions.


Not sure of the relevance to the discussion about a DoFs responsibilities, at Leeds or anywhere else. If we want to talk about KPIs however, I refer you to my reply which details some of the non-entities and also-rans brought in by Orta in his first year as DoF. A ratio of 4 to 30 is not an acceptable performance, and he hasn't improved much since, despite being "controlled" by Bielsa (And anyone suggesting that Orta decides which players to invest in and then gives them to Bielsa is living in cloud cuckoo land).

[WTF11]

I think I understand, Orta and other managers at Leeds, all signings success or failure, solely Orta's responsibility.

Orta and Biesla, bad signings Ortas fault, good signing Biesla's credit only.

Not true. Casilla is (IMHO) not a good signing, neither was JKA, both would have been decided upon by Bielsa. For me, the jury on Llorente is still out, he is good, but "fragile" and that was known before he was transferred, so if he ends up as another Douglas the responsibility would be on Bielsa.

Orta doesn't make transfer decisions, he facilitates those made by Bielsa.