O/T Ollie Robinson.

[ramAnag]

Good point, correct I think, and yes I think they are. The Boos are against the misguided support by FA of BLM not blm. I think it always has been

I’m sure MA is correct...but your interpretation is a bit odd, AF. Do you really think the FA and our various sporting ‘heroes’ have been showing support for something described as ‘ultra left wing and Marxist’?

They are, and always have been, showing support for a cause which ‘decries racism and inequality’. I very much doubt that the majority of those who see fit to boo could distinguish between the two and I’d also suggest that same majority actually do have a racist agenda.

Out of interest, and without any hint at all of accusation, how would/will you react in a full stadium. Would/will you boo, take little notice, or observe with dignified respect as is often the tradition in football grounds at times of crisis/disaster?

[Andy_Faber]

I’m sure MA is correct...but your interpretation is a bit odd, AF. Do you really think the FA and our various sporting ‘heroes’ have been showing support for something described as ‘ultra left wing and Marxist’?

They are, and always have been, showing support for a cause which ‘decries racism and inequality’. I very much doubt that the majority of those who see fit to boo could distinguish between the two and I’d also suggest that same majority actually do have a racist agenda.

Out of interest, and without any hint at all of accusation, how would/will you react in a full stadium. Would/will you boo, take little notice, or observe with dignified respect as is often the tradition in football grounds at times of crisis/disaster?

For ‘the knee’ I’d stand silently, offering neither support nor opposition. I know exactly where I stand on equality and feel no need to virtue signal it. Respecting the fallen is an entirely different matter, I even observe them at home when they are on telly and I’m aware as I’m sure you are that such respect is for all who might have suffered no matter what the race creed or colour. Regrettably there is a small but vocal minority who either don’t see or don’t accept such nuances

[ramAnag]

For ‘the knee’ I’d stand silently, offering neither support nor opposition. I know exactly where I stand on equality and feel no need to virtue signal it. Respecting the fallen is an entirely different matter, I even observe them at home when they are on telly and I’m aware as I’m sure you are that such respect is for all who might have suffered no matter what the race creed or colour. Regrettably there is a small but vocal minority who either don’t see or don’t accept such nuances

Which is exactly what I’d do.
You do seem a little obsessed with ‘virtue signalling’ though. How is showing support for anti racism any different, in terms of what you call ‘virtue signalling’, from ‘respecting the fallen’? They are both demonstrations of respect and support.
I imagine the ‘small but vocal minority’ you refer to are those who ‘boo’. Maybe the nature of the ‘silent majority’ is changing...but it’s interesting that, despite your reservations, you would ‘stand silently’.

[MadAmster]

Just a small tangent on this. There was a thread on FB on this yesterday and just about everybody was either 100% in agreement with the booing or 100% against it. I posted the thought that they might be booing the Marxist political organisation lefties who want to, amongst other things, disband the police and not booing the loose movement who want equality and an end to racism.

I wasn't surprised that I got no replies........

[Andy_Faber]

Just a small tangent on this. There was a thread on FB on this yesterday and just about everybody was either 100% in agreement with the booing or 100% against it. I posted the thought that they might be booing the Marxist political organisation lefties who want to, amongst other things, disband the police and not booing the loose movement who want equality and an end to racism.

I wasn't surprised that I got no replies........

No room for nuance on fb MA!

[Andy_Faber]

Which is exactly what I’d do.
You do seem a little obsessed with ‘virtue signalling’ though. How is showing support for anti racism any different, in terms of what you call ‘virtue signalling’, from ‘respecting the fallen’? They are both demonstrations of respect and support.
I imagine the ‘small but vocal minority’ you refer to are those who ‘boo’. Maybe the nature of the ‘silent majority’ is changing...but it’s interesting that, despite your reservations, you would ‘stand silently’.

Sorry to disappoint but no I didn’t mean the booers, and my ears didn’t hear a small minority of these at the last England match, nor did the BBC commentator on the night although during the following day his commentary was erased from news reports…

Regarding the difference between respecting anti-racism and the fallen, there ISNT a difference where folk are making their statement with free will and genuine support. I dont believe many taking the knee are, I believe they are virtue signalling. We have a similar issue in my village where an emblem of what is supposed to be inclusion is being virtue-signalled to such an estate it’s causing genuine anymosity

Yes I do go on about virtue signalling a lot, we all have our points of obsession ahem Williamson ahem

[ramAnag]

Sorry to disappoint but no I didn’t mean the booers, and my ears didn’t hear a small minority of these at the last England match, nor did the BBC commentator on the night although during the following day his commentary was erased from news reports…

Regarding the difference between respecting anti-racism and the fallen, there ISNT a difference where folk are making their statement with free will and genuine support. I dont believe many taking the knee are, I believe they are virtue signalling. We have a similar issue in my village where an emblem of what is supposed to be inclusion is being virtue-signalled to such an estate it’s causing genuine anymosity

Yes I do go on about virtue signalling a lot, we all have our points of obsession ahem Williamson ahem

All I’d suggest, AF, is that you listen to the words of the great - I use the word advisedly - Michael Holding. He’s just been interviewed, during lunch time at Edgbaston, by Ian Ward and maybe it’s something to do with with us being born just days apart, but every word he said resonated with me. If you get a chance...listen and learn.
He, of course, has a much greater first hand understanding than anything I have to offer, but, as Rob Key said immediately afterwards... ‘sometimes it’s just good to listen’.

P.S. I understand ‘virtue signalling’ when people bang on about how much they give to charity...how much they’ve done to help during the pandemic...how kind they are to their aged parents etc...but I honestly don’t understand how suggesting one’s intellectual support for BLM (blm if you prefer) is any different from wearing a poppy each November, and didn’t those you choose to honour die fighting against a bunch of far right racists?

[Andy_Faber]

All I’d suggest, AF, is that you listen to the words of the great - I use the word advisedly - Michael Holding. He’s just been interviewed, during lunch time at Edgbaston, by Ian Ward and maybe it’s something to do with with us being born just days apart, but every word he said resonated with me. If you get a chance...listen and learn.
He, of course, has a much greater first hand understanding than anything I have to offer, but, as Rob Key said immediately afterwards... ‘sometimes it’s just good to listen’.

P.S. I understand ‘virtue signalling’ when people bang on about how much they give to charity...how much they’ve done to help during the pandemic...how kind they are to their aged parents etc...but I honestly don’t understand how suggesting one’s intellectual support for BLM (blm if you prefer) is any different from wearing a poppy each November, and didn’t those you choose to honour die fighting against a bunch of far right racists?

I listened to it at the time and it was a heart felt performance. The fact that it was (probably) the fifth or sixth such performance on the same subject, and foreworded with reference to the same, lets say, imperfect person, on broadcast TV/radio that day though means that most folk were probably making a cuppa while he was talking - that might sound flippant but I AM serious. To quote my friend Wendy, who is a) accompanying me to the test match later in the summer and b) black, 'Peak GF has been reached'.

[ramAnag]

Yep...you’re right...it does sound a bit flippant.

‘Peak GF’? Not certain what that means...`good fight’? If that’s the case then your friend is just wrong imo, and I don’t understand what difference her being black makes.

[Andy_Faber]

Yep...you’re right...it does sound a bit flippant.

‘Peak GF’? Not certain what that means...`good fight’? If that’s the case then your friend is just wrong imo, and I don’t understand what difference her being black makes.

GF = George Floyd, and the phrase means (in her opinion) reference to him has outlived any usefulness in respect of changing hearts and minds.

And I can’t believe you’re serious, given the subject matter, that you don’t accept (or understand) that there isn’t greater value in the perspective of someone who has ‘skin in the game’ (I hope you understand that phrase)