Boos Ring Out Today - Taking The Knee

[Acido]

Ohh I don't know, I certainly think its been a giggle (but for all the wrong reasons admittedly!).

[westcountryvillain]

Judge people on the content of their character, hire them based on their capability to perform the role - all lives matter, it really is that simple.

In the same way that Brexit has polarised society, the actions of the likes of Sasha Johnson has created tension when as a society we are on the whole, tolerant. I hope she makes a full recovery, as soon as it was clear the attack was not racist the media dropped it as a non story. She said "F'k the police" and "The white man will be our slaves", another said only to shop in businesses owned by black people - both inarguably racist & inflammatory comments. Was any action taken for hate speech?

I grew up going to school in Handsworth, over 30% of the pupils were not white which was not a reflection of the population at the time in the 80's but - we all got on. The only racism I ever saw was towards me by asians from other schools, and in my own neighbourhood (Handsworth Wood), but it was rare and they were just individuals of lesser character than the rest of us.

We have Southgate, Lineker and others implying ALL those who boo are racist - that's bollox, the only way that could ever be verified would be to survey them all. There's nothing wrong with a gesture to express solidarity with black people, it's the conflation with BLM that IMO is causing consternation on the terraces and the subsequent vilification of those that boo. The right to express opinion has to work both ways, we live in a democracy. In the same way to suggest ALL who say "my best mate's black" or something similar are disguising their racism is again bollox.

OWV - you did in reply to an earlier post state you have a black wife, maybe intended as a "so-what" but true nonetheless. You also challenged others as to how BLM/George Floyd's murder has affected their lives directly. A while ago there were posts about how their neighbourhoods have gone downhill with crime and antisocial behaviour since immigrants have moved in so perhaps it has, or would you simply pigeon hole them as closet racists who just want to live amongst white folk?

The problem today I feel is a labelling one - you can't be labour if you support any government policy for example, all Brexit supporters are racist little englanders is another. We have to get away from that.

[mickd1961]

Judge people on the content of their character, hire them based on their capability to perform the role - all lives matter, it really is that simple.

In the same way that Brexit has polarised society, the actions of the likes of Sasha Johnson has created tension when as a society we are on the whole, tolerant. I hope she makes a full recovery, as soon as it was clear the attack was not racist the media dropped it as a non story. She said "F'k the police" and "The white man will be our slaves", another said only to shop in businesses owned by black people - both inarguably racist & inflammatory comments. Was any action taken for hate speech?

I grew up going to school in Handsworth, over 30% of the pupils were not white which was not a reflection of the population at the time in the 80's but - we all got on. The only racism I ever saw was towards me by asians from other schools, and in my own neighbourhood (Handsworth Wood), but it was rare and they were just individuals of lesser character than the rest of us.

We have Southgate, Lineker and others implying ALL those who boo are racist - that's bollox, the only way that could ever be verified would be to survey them all. There's nothing wrong with a gesture to express solidarity with black people, it's the conflation with BLM that IMO is causing consternation on the terraces and the subsequent vilification of those that boo. The right to express opinion has to work both ways, we live in a democracy. In the same way to suggest ALL who say "my best mate's black" or something similar are disguising their racism is again bollox.

OWV - you did in reply to an earlier post state you have a black wife, maybe intended as a "so-what" but true nonetheless. You also challenged others as to how BLM/George Floyd's murder has affected their lives directly. A while ago there were posts about how their neighbourhoods have gone downhill with crime and antisocial behaviour since immigrants have moved in so perhaps it has, or would you simply pigeon hole them as closet racists who just want to live amongst white folk?

The problem today I feel is a labelling one - you can't be labour if you support any government policy for example, all Brexit supporters are racist little englanders is another. We have to get away from that.

Such a great post WCV and far more eloquent than I could hope to scribe, thank you for echoing exactly what I feel.

At my last house I lived in a gated development of four houses, for a few years my next door neighbour was an Asian guy and his wife and daughter, absolutely smashing people.

He eventually built himself a mansion nearby in Hagley that’s been featured on property programmes, when it was finished he invited my round because he knew I loved modern architecture, we always got on really well.

I had Asians living the other side of me who were rude, arrogant a r s e holes.

The people who lived in the house before them were white a r s e holes and total racists,I hated both families equally.

When my nice Asian neighbours moved on they rented their house out, the first guy who took it was a lovely white chap and the next two lots were both white and complete t w a ts!

I am not interested in skin colour, I’m only interested in attitude and how anyone treats me and treats their surroundings.

It suits some people to just be easy on the lazy “middle aged white racist” slur though.

Simply not the case with me.

If anything ever happened to my wife and my next parter was “of colour” I wouldn’t think twice about it, it’s all about the person as far as I’m concerned.

End of!!!

[OWV]

Judge people on the content of their character, hire them based on their capability to perform the role - all lives matter, it really is that simple.

In the same way that Brexit has polarised society, the actions of the likes of Sasha Johnson has created tension when as a society we are on the whole, tolerant. I hope she makes a full recovery, as soon as it was clear the attack was not racist the media dropped it as a non story. She said "F'k the police" and "The white man will be our slaves", another said only to shop in businesses owned by black people - both inarguably racist & inflammatory comments. Was any action taken for hate speech?

I grew up going to school in Handsworth, over 30% of the pupils were not white which was not a reflection of the population at the time in the 80's but - we all got on. The only racism I ever saw was towards me by asians from other schools, and in my own neighbourhood (Handsworth Wood), but it was rare and they were just individuals of lesser character than the rest of us.

We have Southgate, Lineker and others implying ALL those who boo are racist - that's bollox, the only way that could ever be verified would be to survey them all. There's nothing wrong with a gesture to express solidarity with black people, it's the conflation with BLM that IMO is causing consternation on the terraces and the subsequent vilification of those that boo. The right to express opinion has to work both ways, we live in a democracy. In the same way to suggest ALL who say "my best mate's black" or something similar are disguising their racism is again bollox.

OWV - you did in reply to an earlier post state you have a black wife, maybe intended as a "so-what" but true nonetheless. You also challenged others as to how BLM/George Floyd's murder has affected their lives directly. A while ago there were posts about how their neighbourhoods have gone downhill with crime and antisocial behaviour since immigrants have moved in so perhaps it has, or would you simply pigeon hole them as closet racists who just want to live amongst white folk?

The problem today I feel is a labelling one - you can't be labour if you support any government policy for example, all Brexit supporters are racist little englanders is another. We have to get away from that.

Hi WCV, thanks for at least taking the time to make a post that indicates some semblance of logic and I agree on some of your points, i.e. the labelling and judging people on the content of their character.

In regards to the other points, we all know all lives matter, that isn't up for debate, it's absurd to say otherwise and the BLM movement isn't saying they don't. It needs to be understood why BLM started though to distinguish the difference. In the US and in some sections of this country, many black people's lives aren't valued as highly, as evidenced by police killings, hence George Floyd being the straw, or one of the straws that broke the camels back and so much attention was paid to it. Off the top of my head I could mention Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor, Walter Scott, Philando Castile.....all killed by police or in the case of Trayvon Martin, failed completely by the justice system. There are, as you'll probably well know, far, far more. In this country there have been similar issues, Kingsley Burrell for instance, or Christopher Alder. When you start from a base point of the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s and work your way forwards to today, there has of course been progress, but there is still a clear line in the way many black people are treated both in this country and even more overtly so in the States. So bearing in mind the background of the struggle for equality, that took place for hundreds of years, the blatant disregard for people's rights, through to the constant harassment from the police in many communities, to the barrage of abuse footballers get, simply because they're black, it's not hard to see why there is a clear sense of feeling unequal or undervalued. There are so many analogies to put the BLM argument into context against the All Lives Matter quote, one being, would you attend a charity fundraiser to tell them that all charities matter and ask why they're not fundraising for them? There isn't a question of all lives mattering, so if one community is being treated differently, why aren't the all lives matter brigade at the forefront of the BLM issue? They aren't because they only want to use the ALM slogan as a way to belittle the BLM one.

Now some people will point to exceptions to the rule and highlight successful black people in influential positions, the likes of Kwarsi Kwarteng for example, but there have always been exceptions to the rule, you may or may not have heard of Frederick Douglass for example, if not, i'll let you Google him.....but the fact that there are exceptions to the rule is one of the problems. Why should it be that there are 'exceptions to the rule? Similarly, there are people who will use the BLM banner to advocate their own agendas, but don't let those people become your posterboys for the cause. There are racists in every section of society, from every background. As i've said elsewhere though, that does not make the BLM movement racist, just like Boris Johnson calling black people 'piccaninnies' and having 'watermelon miles', doesn't mean every Tory MP/councillor is racist. There are just a***holes out there, infecting every section of society.

For the record, I haven't, well at least I don't think I have, called anyone here racist, I've called them ignorant and I've explained the difference between the two in another post, using Ron Atkinson as the metaphor. I believe there is a clear difference between the two. What I've seen so far is complete ignorance on the topic from others, even when I've stated that I've seen first hand the issues, some of which have led to people dying in fact, it's very hard to restrain myself from calling out people for talking utter garbage, but pontificating on the issue as 'it's their opinion', even though they're unable to say WHY it's their opinion. That's one of the reasons I mentioned my wife, to give credence to what I'm saying......I've seen the issues, seen the after-effects and witnessed and been part of the struggle to make things right. It's not about all lives mattering, it's about one community feeling less valued, and the evidence speaks for itself to show why they would feel that way. Another quick example, my son was playing for a team pre-COVID, one of his teammates started a fight during the game on an opposition player and called him a 'Black c**t'. The reaction? One parent laughing and his team refusing to get rid of the player despite having been part of the usual 'Kick It Out' stuff for months beforehand. When i spoke to the coach, he told me 'people wouldn't have the same reaction if he'd called a ginger kid a ginger t**t'. Outrageous. Anyway, although I don't believe the coach, the parent or the people at the club are racist, I do believe they're stupid as f**k when it comes to this subject and need educating......the same goes with some of the posters on here, they're ignorant.

Anyway, I may have gone around the Wrekin with that, you'll have to forgive me, it's been a long day.

[wanderlust]

Hi WCV, thanks for at least taking the time to make a post that indicates some semblance of logic and I agree on some of your points, i.e. the labelling and judging people on the content of their character.

In regards to the other points, we all know all lives matter, that isn't up for debate, it's absurd to say otherwise and the BLM movement isn't saying they don't. It needs to be understood why BLM started though to distinguish the difference. In the US and in some sections of this country, many black people's lives aren't valued as highly, as evidenced by police killings, hence George Floyd being the straw, or one of the straws that broke the camels back and so much attention was paid to it. Off the top of my head I could mention Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor, Walter Scott, Philando Castile.....all killed by police or in the case of Trayvon Martin, failed completely by the justice system. There are, as you'll probably well know, far, far more. In this country there have been similar issues, Kingsley Burrell for instance, or Christopher Alder. When you start from a base point of the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s and work your way forwards to today, there has of course been progress, but there is still a clear line in the way many black people are treated both in this country and even more overtly so in the States. So bearing in mind the background of the struggle for equality, that took place for hundreds of years, the blatant disregard for people's rights, through to the constant harassment from the police in many communities, to the barrage of abuse footballers get, simply because they're black, it's not hard to see why there is a clear sense of feeling unequal or undervalued. There are so many analogies to put the BLM argument into context against the All Lives Matter quote, one being, would you attend a charity fundraiser to tell them that all charities matter and ask why they're not fundraising for them? There isn't a question of all lives mattering, so if one community is being treated differently, why aren't the all lives matter brigade at the forefront of the BLM issue? They aren't because they only want to use the ALM slogan as a way to belittle the BLM one.

Now some people will point to exceptions to the rule and highlight successful black people in influential positions, the likes of Kwarsi Kwarteng for example, but there have always been exceptions to the rule, you may or may not have heard of Frederick Douglass for example, if not, i'll let you Google him.....but the fact that there are exceptions to the rule is one of the problems. Why should it be that there are 'exceptions to the rule? Similarly, there are people who will use the BLM banner to advocate their own agendas, but don't let those people become your posterboys for the cause. There are racists in every section of society, from every background. As i've said elsewhere though, that does not make the BLM movement racist, just like Boris Johnson calling black people 'piccaninnies' and having 'watermelon miles', doesn't mean every Tory MP/councillor is racist. There are just a***holes out there, infecting every section of society.

For the record, I haven't, well at least I don't think I have, called anyone here racist, I've called them ignorant and I've explained the difference between the two in another post, using Ron Atkinson as the metaphor. I believe there is a clear difference between the two. What I've seen so far is complete ignorance on the topic from others, even when I've stated that I've seen first hand the issues, some of which have led to people dying in fact, it's very hard to restrain myself from calling out people for talking utter garbage, but pontificating on the issue as 'it's their opinion', even though they're unable to say WHY it's their opinion. That's one of the reasons I mentioned my wife, to give credence to what I'm saying......I've seen the issues, seen the after-effects and witnessed and been part of the struggle to make things right. It's not about all lives mattering, it's about one community feeling less valued, and the evidence speaks for itself to show why they would feel that way. Another quick example, my son was playing for a team pre-COVID, one of his teammates started a fight during the game on an opposition player and called him a 'Black c**t'. The reaction? One parent laughing and his team refusing to get rid of the player despite having been part of the usual 'Kick It Out' stuff for months beforehand. When i spoke to the coach, he told me 'people wouldn't have the same reaction if he'd called a ginger kid a ginger t**t'. Outrageous. Anyway, although I don't believe the coach, the parent or the people at the club are racist, I do believe they're stupid as f**k when it comes to this subject and need educating......the same goes with some of the posters on here, they're ignorant.

Anyway, I may have gone around the Wrekin with that, you'll have to forgive me, it's been a long day.

Good points, well made.

I would add that taking the knee is not about BLM anyway. Started as Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the national anthem of a country that discriminates against ethnic minorities. The gesture was emulated by BLM members but also loads of other people who see it as a stand against racism - it's not a BLM thing

[OWV]

Good points, well made.

I would add that taking the knee is not about BLM anyway. Started as Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the national anthem of a country that discriminates against ethnic minorities. The gesture was emulated by BLM members but also loads of other people who see it as a stand against racism - it's not a BLM thing

Thanks, and yeah spot on, the two seem to go hand in hand now.....please don't get us started on the Kaepernick story though, it'll never end!