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Thread: Andrew Neil getting support from main stream medai

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmac View Post
    I think this is exactly why she doesn't really push.

    Recently I was invited onto a MSM news programme to discuss IndyRef2 and i queried the researchers assertions on Scotland looking likely to breakaway. They were shocked to look at the real numbers and seriously hadn't even looked at that angle. I declined to go on but still in discussion about the numbers reality.

    Interested in the silent majority above, for me the silent majority is a real mix of both left and right thinking people, not extreme in either direction. Traditional trade union and labour people and also conservative with a small c. Most people in the country just want a life which rewards effort, not much more.
    Easily understood conservative with a small c, is there an equivalent unionist with a small u? Just asking because I think you have correctly described the political opinion of Scotland, apart from those who believe in independence. In the 2014 referendum the vote split No 55.3% Yes 44.7% on a turnout of 84.6%. Yes share of the electorate 37.8%.
    In the recent Holyrood election SNP share of the vote 47.7% on a turnout of 63.5%. SNP share of the electorate 30.3%. If you assume that the people who voted Green were all SNP voters who voted tactically because their second vote for SNP would not help them to win any additional seats then the SNP + Green votes goes up by 8.1% to 55.8% and on a turnout of 63.55 that gives them a 35.4% share of the electorate.

    I think the SNP know this and they do not want to be given the opportunity to run an indyref 2. Talk about allowing people in England to vote is madness. Just look at the figures and I am sure we all would agree that the last thing Nicola needs is an indyref2 when there is so much uncertainty about the economy. I have wondered if all the other parties at Holyrood decided that a referendum now would help to clear the air and they joined forces to vote to petition Westminster. The Greens might actually vote for such a resolution and it would be odd if the SNP campaigned against the proposal. It's what David Cameron did to "sort" the Brexit debate and it blew up spectacularly in his face so I'm just thinking about it rather than advocating it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    Easily understood conservative with a small c, is there an equivalent unionist with a small u? Just asking because I think you have correctly described the political opinion of Scotland, apart from those who believe in independence. In the 2014 referendum the vote split No 55.3% Yes 44.7% on a turnout of 84.6%. Yes share of the electorate 37.8%.
    In the recent Holyrood election SNP share of the vote 47.7% on a turnout of 63.5%. SNP share of the electorate 30.3%. If you assume that the people who voted Green were all SNP voters who voted tactically because their second vote for SNP would not help them to win any additional seats then the SNP + Green votes goes up by 8.1% to 55.8% and on a turnout of 63.55 that gives them a 35.4% share of the electorate.

    I think the SNP know this and they do not want to be given the opportunity to run an indyref 2. Talk about allowing people in England to vote is madness. Just look at the figures and I am sure we all would agree that the last thing Nicola needs is an indyref2 when there is so much uncertainty about the economy. I have wondered if all the other parties at Holyrood decided that a referendum now would help to clear the air and they joined forces to vote to petition Westminster. The Greens might actually vote for such a resolution and it would be odd if the SNP campaigned against the proposal. It's what David Cameron did to "sort" the Brexit debate and it blew up spectacularly in his face so I'm just thinking about it rather than advocating it.
    I think there is a unionist with a small u, there has to be otherwise IndyRef would sail through. They don’t however need to fly the Union flag, they’re happy being Scottish and British and proud of both, they like both the saltire and Union flag in equal and unwavering measure.

    In my opinion this is the non extreme majority of our country, they’re not on bridges waving flags on a Saturday afternoon they’re out in their back gardens having a beer and bbq with their neighbours and like minded friends. They are mr and mrs happy with their lot and they don’t want anyone disturbing that or putting it at risk!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmac View Post
    I think there is a unionist with a small u, there has to be otherwise IndyRef would sail through. They don’t however need to fly the Union flag, they’re happy being Scottish and British and proud of both, they like both the saltire and Union flag in equal and unwavering measure.

    In my opinion this is the non extreme majority of our country, they’re not on bridges waving flags on a Saturday afternoon they’re out in their back gardens having a beer and bbq with their neighbours and like minded friends. They are mr and mrs happy with their lot and they don’t want anyone disturbing that or putting it at risk!
    That about sums it up for me. Traditionally a Labour voter although not during Corbyn debacle. As for separation, most middle of the roaders, in my opinion, won't go near it unless Sturgeon can give answers that stand up about the economy and the impact for working people, loanees and pensioners. Personally, I think that Johnson is a chancer, but so is Sturgeon.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by parcbara View Post
    That about sums it up for me. Traditionally a Labour voter although not during Corbyn debacle. As for separation, most middle of the roaders, in my opinion, won't go near it unless Sturgeon can give answers that stand up about the economy and the impact for working people, loanees and pensioners. Personally, I think that Johnson is a chancer, but so is Sturgeon.
    Anyone who voted Tory because of Johnson knows what they are voting for/getting.

    Anyone voting SNP because of wee nippy neither knows nor cares.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahrab View Post
    Anyone who voted Tory because of Johnson knows what they are voting for/getting.

    Anyone voting SNP because of wee nippy neither knows nor cares.
    Your post has correctly summed up things. The SNP supporters are only interested in Scotland become an independent country without finding out all the pitfalls.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by islaydarkblue View Post
    Your post has correctly summed up things. The SNP supporters are only interested in Scotland become an independent country without finding out all the pitfalls.
    I often wonder if it's just that we fear change? Change is the only constant in life, people and society adapt constantly to it, yet still people fear it.

    How do people react to the birth of their children? They'd no idea how it would effect them but they made changes, did things a bit differently and adapted. What about the death of someone close - parent, sibling, spouse etc? They had no idea how things would work out and it looks initially like their world's fallen apart, but they adapt and get on with it. Wartime is another; it's devastating at first to hear the country's at war but society adapt to prevailing conditions and gets on with it and it.

    Same with independence - truth is nobody knows how Scotland would cope but the majority fear the change because it's always been that way and independence is different. The UK government played on that massively in the run up to the indy ref by applying project fear.

  7. #17
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    Think it was the SNP who called it Project Fear. Thought the no vote was about Better Together.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    Think it was the SNP who called it Project Fear. Thought the no vote was about Better Together.
    It was a series of scares on how Scotland would be so much worse off and wouldn't be able to compete internationally. Maybe wouldn't even be able to stay in the EU - before the buffoon took us all out of it of course.

    Very aptly named project fear by whoever it was that applied that moniker despite the positive spin by Westminster. How so few people sussed that it was all lies is beyond me - it was the only peace time joint effort at politics between the scummy Tories and Labour ever made.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    I often wonder if it's just that we fear change? Change is the only constant in life, people and society adapt constantly to it, yet still people fear it.

    How do people react to the birth of their children? They'd no idea how it would effect them but they made changes, did things a bit differently and adapted. What about the death of someone close - parent, sibling, spouse etc? They had no idea how things would work out and it looks initially like their world's fallen apart, but they adapt and get on with it. Wartime is another; it's devastating at first to hear the country's at war but society adapt to prevailing conditions and gets on with it and it.

    Same with independence - truth is nobody knows how Scotland would cope but the majority fear the change because it's always been that way and independence is different. The UK government played on that massively in the run up to the indy ref by applying project fear.
    Don’t confuse being able to look at the facts and choose, with fear.

    Common girn of the nationalists, and so far off the mark.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmac View Post
    Don’t confuse being able to look at the facts and choose, with fear.

    Common girn of the nationalists, and so far off the mark.
    I'm talking about the fear of change (and therefore the unknown) generally not as specifically applied to the independence 'issue'. Just making the point that Westminster used society's natural fear of change very well in the run up to the referendum and pointing out that had independence happened people would have adapted.

    I personally don't think many people looked at and assessed the facts in the run up to the referendum, for most it came down to whether they believed SNP spin or Westminster spin.

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