Leeds United - v - Liverpool ***Matchday Thread***

[BelfastAndy]

Keep dreaming Andrew

I feel sick

[cherrypie7]

Maybe it's too easy to judge from the outside but most in the stadium expected a performance.We instead got 'battlers' at times outplayed in my opinion.

Again outside of the stadium folks will this & that & if what & maybe but that's football and that's what you'll get with this season's Bielsa side who for me have very capable players but not quite performing with fluidity instead stuttering through the 90 mins.

Dallas & Rodrigo are capable players but not in the roles asked presently. Fabinho emerged as the game’s outstanding individual and he prompted Liverpool swiftly to control by pressing brilliantly and sidelining Phillips in the second half.He also orchestrated a move with one cross for Salah to net which was ruled out - such a cross that we failed to deliver all game.

I 'firmly believe' that Raph should be our 10 and given the freedom to do what he wants.As an intelligent maverick player he can create situations left right & centre.

Our wing-work is predictable on both flanks & needs more inside work options around the box as crosses put in are dire.Rodrigo has become a luxury in his role presently & Roberts although practical gives no natural individuality instinct options to his game presently.That needs sorting.

Hope in training that both James & Harrison can prove secure starting 11 selection but suspect it'll be another 3 weeks before that magical team balance surfaces.

Down but not Out - Terrific team Liverpool,as a unit,as a game plan and as individuals.Our known flaws were laid down before them to often in truth.Presently, man to man we are not coming out on top as a team unit and it shows over 90 mins.

I know personally one can make mistakes and fall but one can also get back to his feet. Life is full of unexpected events but it's how you react to them - so next up its those Geordies in another belter of hostile atmosphere where you either sink or swim.

Looking forward to the game as I'll be over for it & looking forward to my annual medical results evaluation day this week at the Tony Adams Sporting Chance Re-hab Clinic in Leeds.
So bring it all on !

Agree with almost all said here. Some further thoughts and 1 clarification.
1. Just to clarify and confirm, the red card was the referee's decision alone. No VAR involvement.
2. Firpo at this instant is not as good as Alioski, which makes that side of the pitch rather ineffective as far as the attack goes.
3. We created 2 or 3 clear cut chances which were not taken. This is against a very good team in Liverpool and should be encouraging.
4. Rodrigo just isn't right in the role he is playing now. Missed a good chance too.
5. Even though we did create good chances we also let them have too many opportunities. Meslier kept it from being a tennis score.
6. The biggest problem is simply that we cannot keep the ball. That's it. The only time we were able to keep the ball and pass it efficiently this entire season was against Crewe Alexandria and for about a total of 45 minutes against Bur. Both clubs are not what i would term world beaters especially Burnley.
7. Not sure about Raphinha as a number 10, but I also think anything is worth a try at this moment.

[Billyni]

I feel sick too if Hopelessly’s last post is correct about having to endure Roberts for 5/6 years.
I’ll have no arse left.

[WTF11]

Hey Norfolk

Yes we are a long way off but I don’t think the gap is unbridgeable - just takes several years of gradual improvements and being able to increase revenue.

Key for us will be an upgraded stadium - they seem to think 55k won’t be big enough but with a stadium of 60 to 65k we will be massively increasing revenue as a fair bit of the increased revenue will be corporate or premium hospitality seating.

The other element is having rich owners willing to fund or underwrite investment - suspect if Radz can deliver a new stadium and Europe he will either sell up or hugely reduce his stake.

The one thing I don’t think we will
ever overcome is the preferential treatment of Man U and to a lesser degree Liverpool in the media.

We definitely seem to be following the Leicester model a little by investing heavily in young players. In a couple of years we could potentially have 3 or 4 first team regulars from the u23 and maybe one or two more.

Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years.

Yesterday also showed that Cooper will limit progress to the next level much as he has done for us and not sure where Ayling’s ceiling is but not much higher than Cooper’s.

Hope Shackleton gets to play against Newcastle and would like to see Gelhardt get time too.

I would play

Meslier

Shack. Ayling/Koch Cooper Firpo

Phillips

Dallas Klich

Rapha James

Paddy

There is no denying you most certainly live up to your nickname.

The reference to the stadium flies in the face of recently published evidence that ALL PL clubs would be profitable if they closed their turnstiles, and the top flight particularly so. Not denying that a larger capacity wouldn't help, but what's the cost/benefit and when would the investment start to pay for itself? Certainly not a short term issue, and what owner (Radrizzzani or someone with deeper pockets) is going to plan on creating a 55-65k stadium, when we're fighting relegation (which we will be, if current performance is maintained)?

"Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years." Errr, yes, quite, indeed, in a strictly HO-bound universe, nowhere else

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for the majority of the players, yet there is no resilience in the squad that allows for changes to be made (even those that might be seen as keeping the "main" players honest).

Of yesterdays team (starting or as sub)

Meslier - Good, better than last season, but needs a defence he can rely on
Firpo - Maybe a good left back, but not much else, and nowhere near as able (or apparently willing) to contribute in the way that Alioski did - where is the player than can provide the play-making and assist that Alisoki made available?
Ayling - Agree with you, he is at or near his ceiling of performance and isn't getting younger either - where is his replacement?
Llorente - Another Forshaw in the making, incapable of living with the physicality of the PL (can you imagine him playing in the Championship???) - where is his replacement?
Cooper - again, agree with you - where is his replacement?
Phillips - Best player we have, by a country mile. Must feel very much alone sometimes, seeing the performance of those around him
Raphina - Played out of position but still great to watch when on song, needs to be put where he is strongest (No. 10?) and then where does the playmaker come from (your comment regarding Pablo in post #98 is spot on, we haven't replaced him)
Dallas - a latter day Paul Madeley, goes where he is put, performs to his utmost (usually very good), again must feel a tad lonely when many of those around him are screwing up
Rodrigo - Who he? Waste of space and £26m, where is his replacement?
Roberts - Really?
Struijk - One of the best graduates from the "junior" sides of recent times
Harrison - Needs support from the failures behind him, can't beat a whole opposition wing assembly on his own
James - we will see, one game isn't a fair basis for assessment, especially when its against Liverpool
Bamford - Heart of a lion, runs till he drops and makes the mileage count (not a Sacko for sure!), but not clinical enough and not enough on his own. Not a replacement, a strike partner is required.

So, not saying there is anything particularly insightful or scientific about the above, but seems we need 7 players, as either replacements to those who are simply not good enough, e.g. Roberts, or to play in positions currently occupied by square pegs in round holes e.g. Raphina

And the prospects of delving into the loan market, freebies etc? Nil.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

There is no denying you most certainly live up to your nickname.

The reference to the stadium flies in the face of recently published evidence that ALL PL clubs would be profitable if they closed their turnstiles, and the top flight particularly so. Not denying that a larger capacity wouldn't help, but what's the cost/benefit and when would the investment start to pay for itself? Certainly not a short term issue, and what owner (Radrizzzani or someone with deeper pockets) is going to plan on creating a 55-65k stadium, when we're fighting relegation (which we will be, if current performance is maintained)?

"Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years." Errr, yes, quite, indeed, in a strictly HO-bound universe, nowhere else

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for the majority of the players, yet there is no resilience in the squad that allows for changes to be made (even those that might be seen as keeping the "main" players honest).

Of yesterdays team (starting or as sub)

Meslier - Good, better than last season, but needs a defence he can rely on
Firpo - Maybe a good left back, but not much else, and nowhere near as able (or apparently willing) to contribute in the way that Alioski did - where is the player than can provide the play-making and assist that Alisoki made available?
Ayling - Agree with you, he is at or near his ceiling of performance and isn't getting younger either - where is his replacement?
Llorente - Another Forshaw in the making, incapable of living with the physicality of the PL (can you imagine him playing in the Championship???) - where is his replacement?
Cooper - again, agree with you - where is his replacement?
Phillips - Best player we have, by a country mile. Must feel very much alone sometimes, seeing the performance of those around him
Raphina - Played out of position but still great to watch when on song, needs to be put where he is strongest (No. 10?) and then where does the playmaker come from (your comment regarding Pablo in post #98 is spot on, we haven't replaced him)
Dallas - a latter day Paul Madeley, goes where he is put, performs to his utmost (usually very good), again must feel a tad lonely when many of those around him are screwing up
Rodrigo - Who he? Waste of space and £26m, where is his replacement?
Roberts - Really?
Struijk - One of the best graduates from the "junior" sides of recent times
Harrison - Needs support from the failures behind him, can't beat a whole opposition wing assembly on his own
James - we will see, one game isn't a fair basis for assessment, especially when its against Liverpool
Bamford - Heart of a lion, runs till he drops and makes the mileage count (not a Sacko for sure!), but not clinical enough and not enough on his own. Not a replacement, a strike partner is required.

So, not saying there is anything particularly insightful or scientific about the above, but seems we need 7 players, as either replacements to those who are simply not good enough, e.g. Roberts, or to play in positions currently occupied by square pegs in round holes e.g. Raphina

And the prospects of delving into the loan market, freebies etc? Nil.

😎

accept most of the money comes from TV but need to maximise everything to close the revenue gap.

Think we pretty much agree on most things with the team. Feel a bit for a Firpo has CVD and then first game back is Liverpool with Cooper inside him and outgunned in midfield.

On Robert’s I would much prefer us to have better but he is undoubtedly progressing and getting better and he showed a lot more composure with the ball than Rodrigo did.

Think Rodrigo is a very good player but he just can’t play well against the top sides where he is being played in this system.

Would also like us to see more support for Paddy be it 2 up front - unlikely or more of a there behind him.

At least we have got two hard games out of the way.

Thought Gary Neville summed it up well in that at times we looked too desperate to get forward that we just hit oases that were not on.

If we lose to the barcodes I might become a little more concerned.

[spaldy]

The Leicester model was referenced. I think that's spot on with what we are trying to do.

we have some good U-23's and instead of loans or more big signings we should look to some of them playing. Strujik is very, very good and plays in a way that he doesn't stand out but if you watch what he does he's solid as a prem player 10 years older. Sometimes good is not flashy but very consistent.

would love to see some of the U-23's get a shot in the next 10 games. at our current injury rate we are going to need them.

[ozleeds]

People say well improve so on but the fact remains the writing was on the wall pre-season and the performances have followed through.
Here in Australia when a fresh face starts the first year and looks like a superstar the next year is very poor, we call it second-year blues.
Perhaps with basically the same team might be the case as they gave it all last year and now have nothing left.
That's why I was saying we need 3 or 4 decent signings to help the team out and what we got was f all. Now we are in the same boat injuries suspensions piling up, form increasingly worrying. We have the owner after a 3 nil drubbing come out and say ohh we will fix the stadium up, we look to be playing in euro in 3 years bla bla bla
The only money we spend on transfers was the money they gave us for promotion.
Ps, the same people that were having a go at the likes of me Wtf, and a few others are singing the same tune now.

[ozleeds]

Agree on getting Raph more involved and 10 may suit him - also agree we sometimes look predictable - I sometimes wonder if the players get pre programmed moves in training as sometimes we seem to carry on when the pass isn’t on.

Really need a schemer in the middle of the park to buddy up with Kalvin and run the game (please come back Pablo).

Were a lot of high points from the game and easy to forget that Liverpool are probably in the top 10 sides in world football. Phillips, Bamford, Rapha and Llorente till he went off all looked good. I also thought Firpo did okay as Harrison didn’t have his best game and he was being overloaded and having to deal witn Sallah and TAA.

Must beat the barcodes.

I like how they pull through home grown talent too a model to follow - Thought Alexander Arnold and Barnes were two of their best players.

Again MB after we got James was asked this question and his reply was he plays wing and is playing well I don't see the point of changing! And we all know how stubborn he can be. He also came out after the game and blamed himself for our form Well hello your selections are one big factor.

[ozleeds]

WTF watching the Everton Burnley game and Burnley are butchering the Everton players and no cards? Lol, first fool by Everton he gets carded is this for real?

[Monaco_Totty]

Agree with almost all said here. Some further thoughts and 1 clarification.
1. Just to clarify and confirm, the red card was the referee's decision alone. No VAR involvement.
2. Firpo at this instant is not as good as Alioski, which makes that side of the pitch rather ineffective as far as the attack goes.
3. We created 2 or 3 clear cut chances which were not taken. This is against a very good team in Liverpool and should be encouraging.
4. Rodrigo just isn't right in the role he is playing now. Missed a good chance too.
5. Even though we did create good chances we also let them have too many opportunities. Meslier kept it from being a tennis score.
6. The biggest problem is simply that we cannot keep the ball. That's it. The only time we were able to keep the ball and pass it efficiently this entire season was against Crewe Alexandria and for about a total of 45 minutes against Bur. Both clubs are not what i would term world beaters especially Burnley.
7. Not sure about Raphinha as a number 10, but I also think anything is worth a try at this moment.

Hi Cherry - Raph as a 10 ?

Raphinia's passing quality played an important role for Rennes in a variety of different ways.With him more central as an attacking Rennes playmaker it did cause the opposition problems with his passing when running in behind or when given even a small bit of space in front of the defensive line which makes him a difficult threat to deal with for plenty of defences.


Yes he provides width & pace & defensive duties presently but i just feel he's got so much more to offer the team tactically which he's done well in the past when required.

With Bamfords unselfish running Raph can make more goals happen with his tactical brain & such a brain is required sometimes during 90 mins when things are not going well.

This picture below highlights what he can do if switched centrally when needed.
Imagine him with 3 Leeds runners taking defenders away - some option.

With 4 pacey wingmen in the squad - now enough room for 2 on and Raph moved more central when the situation is necessary during 90 mins or against opposition who line up deep.It'll fit the counter attack option MB likes to use & won't disrupt our style.

I wish I had that service option when playing centre forward at netball years ago