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Thread: O/T:- Michael Gove

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpie_mania View Post
    Good post. Women's rights have, and are being erased. But it seems few are willing to speak up for what they believe in, due mainly to abuse (much of it online).
    Yes, I don't think many people realise the extent of it, thank you for noticing MM. Civil servants wrote a maternity bill (The Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill) recently which did not include a single reference to the words woman or mother. The HoL weren't having any of it thank goodness.

    Interestingly, Stonewall are being quietly ditched by public bodies, including the CPS a few days ago. There's concern around the 'contentious' advice they're giving organisations, including misrepresenting the Equality Act. They've done so much good stuff for so long, it's sad it's come to this.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cher1 View Post
    I take your point, and agree about UC but disagree about women's rights in terms of this particular issue.

    I believe in equality for all. I don't believe that one group's equality should ever include putting another group at risk. In particular, women (and children) must always be safe when at their most vulnerable.
    I believe in equality for all as well. There is zero evidence the Tories do or ever have done.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    I believe in equality for all as well. There is zero evidence the Tories do or ever have done.
    I don't vote for the Tories either ..

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by cher1 View Post
    I don't vote for the Tories either ..
    Fair enough. I should add that as a non trans bloke I don’t feel qualified to talk directly about this issue. I can say that my 17 year old daughter takes a completely different view on it to you, and in the last place I was union rep a trans woman used the women’s facilities mid transition with no problems. As far as I knew anyway.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    Fair enough. I should add that as a non trans bloke I don’t feel qualified to talk directly about this issue. I can say that my 17 year old daughter takes a completely different view on it to you, and in the last place I was union rep a trans woman used the women’s facilities mid transition with no problems. As far as I knew anyway.
    It’s a tricky issue. I’m quite sure that most trans people can use the toilets they feel comfortable in with no problems, but some women are very concerned that some man could claim to be a woman, and have a right to go into female only spaces. I’ve only heard of one example of this actually happening.

    I find it difficult to even talk about the subject, because the terms “gender” and “***” have become thoroughly mixed up. I accept that *** (male or female) is not quite as easy to define as I used to assume, but I object to “assigned at birth” when “observed at birth” seems a better description.

    Overall, I would like people to be kind to trans people (I only know one, but it’s no problem to use his preferred pronouns and to keep some of my opinions to myself, such as the fact that I don’t actually think he’s male, just that he sees himself as that). But there are a few trans activists who claim to be female and act in a stereotypically male way, particularly towards feminists. They seem to have succeeded in making it “wrong” and anti-trans to disagree with them.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    Fair enough. I should add that as a non trans bloke I don’t feel qualified to talk directly about this issue. I can say that my 17 year old daughter takes a completely different view on it to you, and in the last place I was union rep a trans woman used the women’s facilities mid transition with no problems. As far as I knew anyway.
    Should males have the right to be inmates in women's prisons?

    Should males have the right to work in women's rape crisis centres?

    Should males have the right to undress and shower in a changing room with ****age girls?

    What about as patients on women's wards?

  7. #77
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    Good post. I want everyone to behave decently to each other. The sad reality is that women need single *** spaces to be safe and feel comfortable. Not all men are a risk, of course not, but the awful reality is that it's impossible to know who's a danger and who isn't. Hence single *** spaces. I don't think we should have to give them up.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by cher1 View Post
    Good post. I want everyone to behave decently to each other. The sad reality is that women need single *** spaces to be safe and feel comfortable. Not all men are a risk, of course not, but the awful reality is that it's impossible to know who's a danger and who isn't. Hence single *** spaces. I don't think we should have to give them up.
    Just a quick one for you cher.why does my local pool have ladies only swimming sessions (incorporating use of the sauna and steam facilities) in the afternoon and evening but is not reciprocated for the male species?
    Equality for all,but not men.....?,!

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Pie View Post
    Totally disagree with that. I get the point that very few politicians are squeaky clean, but those two are way, way below the bottom of the barrel. Looking back over our last few PMs, I'd say Blair and Cameron have serious questions to answer, Brown and May were fairly decent people in political terms, but the former came in at a bad time and the latter wasn't quite up to the job in a similarly bad time. Johnson, with the full support of Gove openly, blatantly and callously lied to the people who had voted them in over the Dominic Cummings affair. They knew full well that they were lying but that didn't bother them in the slightest, they still went ahead. I can fully understand why Mapperleypie describes those who supported them as "voted for by those that are not properly paying attention, complete morons that only have the brain capacity for three-word-slogans and knuckle-dragging racists".

    Can any of the Tory boys on here provide some justification for such a blatant and disgraceful lie?
    Whichever version of Mr Cummings story you believe I fully agree that the events were handled very badly by all concerned. Obviously not the the biggest or most important lie by a politician but one that does not reflect well on the participants.

    As you are fully aware this event was after the election so this would not have affected how the alleged knuckle draggers voted.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwardmagpie View Post
    Whichever version of Mr Cummings story you believe I fully agree that the events were handled very badly by all concerned. Obviously not the the biggest or most important lie by a politician but one that does not reflect well on the participants.

    As you are fully aware this event was after the election so this would not have affected how the alleged knuckle draggers voted.
    When he went on his jaunt everything he said after was a whopping lie, but then after he was sacked and started slating the government and Johnson then suddenly everything he said was the truth. Depends on your political slant on what you believe or want to believe.

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