O/T:- Michael Gove

[crazyfists]

I've not got involved in this thread but been reading it with interest. I agree with Cher in that women have the right to feel safe and whether people like it stating or not, the problem of male on female violence is massive and I'm sick of watching women who have hopes and dreams like any of us being victims of a mans cruelty or unwanted ***ual desires. Sick of it. If women want female only swimming sessions then they have every right to do so. Also men could also have them if they wanted but they don't, only when it serves as a counterpoint in an argument. If you do want them then raise the issue with your local baths and mps. We all know that nearly every man are good people and despise their fellow man who mistreat women, that doesn't mean we can't say there is a problem with male on female violence.

In regards to gender reassignment or using a different pronoun then I think let people live their lives as they want. I don't agree with taking kids to therapists and them being put on tablets for multiple issues, ones as young as 5 are being put on antidepressants and I simply don't think this should happen. I may be wrong but as I say just my opinion. I think a 17 year old though might be old enough to know what they want in regards to *** so would treat each of those cases on their merits. The issue of womens toilets is something that will never be resolved. I'm leaning on the side of Cher on this one as for one women should feel safe and two you might get people using the fact they can go in the womens toilet for nefarious means. On the other side if you have had gender reassignment and feel you are a woman then you would rightly feel you could use the toilets. Men though pre gender reassignment who just say they're both as they wear high heels should not be allowed in the toilet. Maybe the uni*** toilets idea is the best opinion where they can be installed.

In defence of Pedro though I asked my wife if she thought asking the Liz Truss would you question and she didn't think it was that big a deal. She said she's had conversations before with her mates over the years like would you sleep such and such male at work etc so it works both ways.

That's all I've got to say about that.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Thanks CF that point I raised about women talking amongst themselves went by completely unanswered so it was refreshing to get a female perspective as I know it works both ways but is used as a tool for ***ism.
I have worked in an office full of women as the only Male and believe me they are worse than men.
My other point about swimming was it was ***ism in reverse.I have no objection to ladies having allocated slots but why don't men.Thrre are just as many men who are insecure about their body image as women so as a matter of point shouldn't the council offer this to men automatically as it does for women they shouldnt have to campaign.if its correct for one *** then should it not be correct for both.
The argument about *** assaults and harassment doesn't stand up given the figures that were put forward.I was open minded about that argument and would readily have accepted it being the case if it was so. However I have to say very disappointed to see the figures used to justify the argument they were very very low and if correct could never justify the imbalance portrayed
Just my thoughts.
I really can't say anymore on this as I think I'm going around in a circle now sorry..!

[upthemaggies]

Women face punishment for using wrong pronouns

Women prisoners who call transgender prisoners by the wrong pronoun could be punished with time added on to their sentence, the Government has warned.

Deliberately referring to a trans woman as “he” or “him” may be treated as breaching a prison rule against “using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour” and could be brought before an Independent Adjudicator – a visiting judge – who has the power to award added days.

The threat will fuel a debate over the policy of holding male-to-female transgender prisoners in women’s jails. In 2019 there were 34 transgender women who were still legally male detained at the 12 women’s prisons in England and Wales.


https://insidetime.org/women-face-pu...rong-pronouns/

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Women face punishment for using wrong pronouns

Women prisoners who call transgender prisoners by the wrong pronoun could be punished with time added on to their sentence, the Government has warned.

Deliberately referring to a trans woman as “he” or “him” may be treated as breaching a prison rule against “using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour” and could be brought before an Independent Adjudicator – a visiting judge – who has the power to award added days.

The threat will fuel a debate over the policy of holding male-to-female transgender prisoners in women’s jails. In 2019 there were 34 transgender women who were still legally male detained at the 12 women’s prisons in England and Wales.


https://insidetime.org/women-face-pu...rong-pronouns/

Hang 'em high..!...that's what I say.....!

[cher1]

Women face punishment for using wrong pronouns

Women prisoners who call transgender prisoners by the wrong pronoun could be punished with time added on to their sentence, the Government has warned.

Deliberately referring to a trans woman as “he” or “him” may be treated as breaching a prison rule against “using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour” and could be brought before an Independent Adjudicator – a visiting judge – who has the power to award added days.

The threat will fuel a debate over the policy of holding male-to-female transgender prisoners in women’s jails. In 2019 there were 34 transgender women who were still legally male detained at the 12 women’s prisons in England and Wales.


https://insidetime.org/women-face-pu...rong-pronouns/

There should be no place for males in a women's prison, that way this mad situation would never arise. Karen White was a prolific male *** offender (including rapes and child *** offences) who identified as female but still had a *****. Karen was allowed to go to a women's prison, in amongst the most vulnerable women in society. Can you guess what happened next?

[cher1]

Oh and just in case Ulaggy thinks that's me being transphobic, it isn't. I think everyone should be safe in prison, men, women and transgender people. If there needs to be a 'third space' to house transgender people safely, I'd happily support that.

[HeroPie1862]

One of the most baffling parts of being trans in the UK is watching anti trans folks, who make being anti trans their identity, insisting that "trans people attack cis women, and that's one sided, we anti trans lot never attack or harass Trans people, this is purely one sided".

The anti trans lot are either being willfully deceptive, don't see what they do as harassment, or both, they are not willing to acknowledge so much as that trans people face harassment by them.

Now, I know this is all about image and wanting to be seen as a victim of the "trans menace" but it's quite a piss take.

If we shouldn't allow trans women in women's prisons, because one trans woman raped / assaulted other woman, then we shouldn't allow Notts County fans to be Doctors because one Notts fan Doctor turned out to be a serial killer.

[cher1]

One of the most baffling parts of being trans in the UK is watching anti trans folks, who make being anti trans their identity, insisting that "trans people attack cis women, and that's one sided, we anti trans lot never attack or harass Trans people, this is purely one sided".

The anti trans lot are either being willfully deceptive, don't see what they do as harassment, or both, they are not willing to acknowledge so much as that trans people face harassment by them.

Now, I know this is all about image and wanting to be seen as a victim of the "trans menace" but it's quite a piss take.

If we shouldn't allow trans women in women's prisons, because one trans woman raped / assaulted other woman, then we shouldn't allow Notts County fans to be Doctors because one Notts fan Doctor turned out to be a serial killer.

I don't know anyone who has an anti trans identity, do you?

Did you know that many women find the term cis really offensive? I am a woman, not a cis woman. Who are the 'anti trans folk'?

And I find this sentence REALLY offensive:

'Now, I know this is all about image and wanting to be seen as a victim of the "trans menace" but it's quite a piss take.'

I am a survivor of male violence. That's no 'piss take'. Wanting single *** spaces for women is nothing to do with being anti trans, and everything to do with protection from male violence, and safeguarding. Why would you consider something that protects women to be anti trans? It's about women.

Your comment comparing doctors and and prisons is nonsensical, happy to explain why should you wish.

After Harold Shipman, wholesale changes were made to the way doctors practise to minimise the risks to patients. You might not be aware of that. In the same way, when something that should never happen in a prison occurs, that set of circumstances should not be allowed to happen again. No woman should ever be locked in a cell with a biological male. You might like to read some of the letters from women in prisons in California, where more than 300 biological males are being moved to women's prisons. Why do their rights trump the safety of the women? The women are terrified.

You seem to dismiss women being attacked in prison as some sort of collateral damage, oh its just the odd r a p e. Why do you dismiss the rights of women so easily? Those rights are hard won and not for men to give away.

Men, women and trans prisoners must all be kept safe in prison. However, one group's rights must never ever put another group's in danger.

I'm well aware that this subject has been covered on here in depth recently, and dont want to bang on about it endlessly. Happy to take the discussion to private messages instead?

[magpie_mania]

I don't know anyone who has an anti trans identity, do you?

Did you know that many women find the term cis really offensive? I am a woman, not a cis woman. Who are the 'anti trans folk'?

And I find this sentence REALLY offensive:

'Now, I know this is all about image and wanting to be seen as a victim of the "trans menace" but it's quite a piss take.'

I am a survivor of male violence. That's no 'piss take'. Wanting single *** spaces for women is nothing to do with being anti trans, and everything to do with protection from male violence, and safeguarding. Why would you consider something that protects women to be anti trans? It's about women.

Your comment comparing doctors and and prisons is nonsensical, happy to explain why should you wish.

After Harold Shipman, wholesale changes were made to the way doctors practise to minimise the risks to patients. You might not be aware of that. In the same way, when something that should never happen in a prison occurs, that set of circumstances should not be allowed to happen again. No woman should ever be locked in a cell with a biological male. You might like to read some of the letters from women in prisons in California, where more than 300 biological males are being moved to women's prisons. Why do their rights trump the safety of the women? The women are terrified.

You seem to dismiss women being attacked in prison as some sort of collateral damage, oh its just the odd r a p e. Why do you dismiss the rights of women so easily? Those rights are hard won and not for men to give away.

Men, women and trans prisoners must all be kept safe in prison. However, one group's rights must never ever put another group's in danger.

I'm well aware that this subject has been covered on here in depth recently, and dont want to bang on about it endlessly. Happy to take the discussion to private messages instead?

Well said. That sentence is incredibly offensive.

If we need prisons for men, women and trans then so be it.

[HeroPie1862]

I don't know anyone who has an anti trans identity, do you?

Did you know that many women find the term cis really offensive? I am a woman, not a cis woman. Who are the 'anti trans folk'?

And I find this sentence REALLY offensive:

'Now, I know this is all about image and wanting to be seen as a victim of the "trans menace" but it's quite a piss take.'

I am a survivor of male violence. That's no 'piss take'. Wanting single *** spaces for women is nothing to do with being anti trans, and everything to do with protection from male violence, and safeguarding. Why would you consider something that protects women to be anti trans? It's about women.

Your comment comparing doctors and and prisons is nonsensical, happy to explain why should you wish.

After Harold Shipman, wholesale changes were made to the way doctors practise to minimise the risks to patients. You might not be aware of that. In the same way, when something that should never happen in a prison occurs, that set of circumstances should not be allowed to happen again. No woman should ever be locked in a cell with a biological male. You might like to read some of the letters from women in prisons in California, where more than 300 biological males are being moved to women's prisons. Why do their rights trump the safety of the women? The women are terrified.

You seem to dismiss women being attacked in prison as some sort of collateral damage, oh its just the odd r a p e. Why do you dismiss the rights of women so easily? Those rights are hard won and not for men to give away.

Men, women and trans prisoners must all be kept safe in prison. However, one group's rights must never ever put another group's in danger.

I'm well aware that this subject has been covered on here in depth recently, and dont want to bang on about it endlessly. Happy to take the discussion to private messages instead?

Only because it warrants it, not because I want to argue - this isn't my terf to walk over, I only know what I believe and don't know enough about "t'uver side" to care about arguing either.

I only know women (In this case, and referring to what you said) who refuse to accept that culture has moved on finding the term offensive.

I don't agree with the term, I think it's *******s really, it's in no way close to an offensive word though, it's not in the same league as using a "hard N" or "hard F" for example, and that's because "Cisgender" is a neutral ajective, it's not anything to do with power or anything, it doesn't insult people when its used, however I do not agree with it being used - just say straight, easy... New words confuse and cause fear, so eliminate that.

And IIRC even if you are transgender you can be considered CIS, it's just a little *******s and as I said, is a useless phrase - even my friends who are LGBTQ+ and trans, use it jokingly a majority of the time.

You are free to find that offensive however I am also a survivor of both male and female violence, to the point where I have diagnosed PTSD - I in no way would ever tar people witht he same brush, and perhaps that is due to me having therapy and a course of antidepressants, I've learned that it isn't reasonable to consider everyone being the same as the people that hurt me.

I also understand that not everybody is at the point where they can take that stance, however, I do not in any way believe what I said as being offensive as it's the truth - plenty of places now have gender neutral toilets for example (Nando's is the biggest that comes to mind) and honestly, I can't by a quick google find there being any issues in those spaces.

Prisons are a ****ty culture anyway (It's where my father, at 25 as I told you in a previous thread, died) but again, you can't tar a group of people with the same brush that another has painted with - it's just not fair or reasonable, a majority of transwomen and men do not commit crimes and are more than likely to be the victims of crimes and hate themselves.

The person who commited that crime in prison was wrong, however it is not right for a whole group to be punished based of one persons wrong - and whilst I don't believe biologically that transpeople are the gender they assign themselves, I agree that they have a right to say they are the gender they choose to live their lives as, as it brings them comfort and joy, it in no way is used as a way to attack men or women - that's what I'm coming from with the "transmenace" and "victim" sentance, because you are using a minority to project on a majority of people.

I was assulted by a black guy once, I don't think all black people are going to assault me, for example.

And just to speak from what I believe your mindset is when it comes to transwomen in womens prisons, you sure are fine to accept and say (as I do myself) that at birth they are biologically male or female, however it is unfair, and unacceptable to then believe that these people who find who they actually are, will then use it as an excuse to assault men and women because they want to "look like a woman or look like a man" - that's just totally unreasonable in my eyes.

You Cher, dress a certain way because it makes you happy and comfortable, a lot of these men and women are mentally ill with body dysphoria, and becoming a man or woman allows them to find peace, they don't then go out to become the opposite gender just to assault people - the sterotype of a butch transvestite is just a sterotype and it's an offensive one, the majority of transgender men and women just want to live how they believe they should live and that's not unreasonable.

A lot of trans folks too choose to have surgery to confirm that their gender to themselves and others, and you can take that however you want, but that surely takes away part of the fear that a ***ual assault may happen in a prison?

And no rights trump anyone elses rights, everyone should be treated equally, but I fear that your opinion on this subject is biased, somewhat fairly, sure, to your own experience but also your own sterotyping of people who have gone through their whole lives being sterotyped, and just wish to live in peace as the gender they believe, and want to be.

I'm not going to respond to this anymore, what I've said isn't unreasonable, you just can't acceptably paint a group of people with the same brush that you'd paint a piece of **** with.

---

Was that all too smart of a post for ya'll? I'll just type some **** here then?

Stop watching J.K. Rowling videos and do your own research, meet these people and stop being a white CIS scum.