Bare Bones

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Oh Cresswell and Shackleton start today with Rodrigo up top so smoke on that with your ‘he never plays kids’ theory - pffft

[ozleeds]

Oz - keep on digging - if you dig deep enough you may just end up in the UK

What for? the way I'm going here i would have to steal a loaf of bread to eat and end up back here lol

[ozleeds]

Davies played a lot of games and then apparently developed an attitude issue (even KP in an interview alluded to it).

I was asked to provide the names Oz and there they all are every one of them played for the first team under Bielsa and some a fair bit - so to say he never ever plays kids is wrong.

Blooded far more than people might remember.

I am pretty sure at least 7 or 8 of the current u23 will get blooded at some point and even more impressively a number of those look like making it.

I'm not denying they blooded some just pointed as to why they got a chance and crap games against Crawley so on plz they count for nothing.
Again I will ask you if all the players are fit do you think these kids will be playing?
Big deal Creswell shak and your fav firpo and rod in the team today what's your point? No fact that injuries are playing the part? Now go back to bed i want to enjoy the game lol

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I was asked to name those that had been debuted by MB so did - some of them played a fair few games or continue to do so - others
Not so much - but they do get an opportunity.

[WTF11]

I was asked to name those that had been debuted by MB so did - some of them played a fair few games or continue to do so - others
Not so much - but they do get an opportunity.

One game (be interesting to see how many of your names got a whole single game or less), isn't enough is it (you seem to think a new addition direct into the 1st team needs a few).

Anyway, I he (Bielsa), has given some an opportunity then good for him, and if he has been reading some of these posts and thought "OK, maybe WTF is right and the likes of Shackleton, Cresswell and (maybe), Gelhardt and MciInstry do deserve more game time", then good on him too!

[WTF11]

Youngster being a ****ager

Jack Clarke
Casey
meslier
edmondson
McAlmont
Gotts
Bogusz
Odour
Temenuzlov
Steven’s
Greenwood
Davies
Shackleton
Summerville
Cresswell
joffy
mcInsstry

I believe Struijk was just 20 when he made his debut otherwise you could throw him in too.

Ok, many thanks for the names, most obliged.

Lets have a close look at what followed those debut you’re so anxious to congratulate Bielsa about;

Jack Clarke – 22 games (21 league, 1 cup)

Casey – 3 games (all cup, 1 at least as substitute). Made his professional debut on 7 December 2019 as an 85th-minute substitute for Mateusz Klich in a 2–0 victory at Huddersfield Town.[6][7] .Casey made two further appearances for Leeds' first team across the 2020–21 season, both in cup competitions

Meslier – 53 appearances, (50 league, 3 cup).

Edmondson – 2 games, both as subs (1 each in 2107/18 & 2018/19) – Edmondson debuted for Leeds in the Championship on the last day of the season, 6 May 2018, as a 73rd-minute substitute in a 2–0 home victory against Queens Park Rangers, at 16 years of age.[ He made one league appearance as a substitute for the first team.

McAlmont – Did not play in the 1st team in a league match whilst Leeds have been in the Championship or the PL, played twice in the EFL cup. He was given his first team debut by head coach Marcelo Bielsa on 13 August in the EFL Cup against Salford City, coming on as a substitute for Jack Clarke in the 70th minute.[9] He made his first Leeds start on 27 August 2019 in Leeds' EFL Cup match against Stoke City, with Leeds losing on 4–5 on penalties after a 2–2 draw.[10]

Gotts – 1 game for the 1st team in two seasons - As of 12 December 2019, he had featured on the first-team substitute's bench over 30 times for the first team, but had yet to make his senior debut.[6][7] He made his long-awaited debut by starting in the FA Cup on 6 January 2020 in a 1–0 defeat against Premier League side Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium.[
Gotts won Leeds United’s Academy Player of the Year award at the clubs end of season awards on 24 July 2020.[

Bogusz – 1 league and 2 cup appearances
He made his senior debut for Leeds on 27 August 2019 in an EFL Cup match against Stoke City, with Leeds losing on 4–5 on penalties after a 2–2 draw in normal time.[17][18] Bogusz made his league debut for the club in the final game of the season in a 4–0 victory against Charlton Athletic.[20]
His first start of the 2020–21 season came on 16 September 2020 for Premier League Leeds in a 1–1 draw against EFL League One side Hull City in the EFL Cup, with Hull winning 9-8 on penalties.[21]

Odour – 1 appearance as an 85th minute substitute

Temenuzhkov (you nearly got that spelling right) 1 appearance as a 79th minute substitute
He made his professional first team debut on 6 January 2019 during a 2–1 defeat to Queens Park Rangers in the third round of the FA Cup, as a 79th-minute substitute for Tom Pearce

Stevens – 6 appearances, (5 league, 1 cup) He was named in a Leeds first team squad in a competitive game for first time on 6 January 2019 when he was named on the bench, during a 2–1 defeat to Queens Park Rangers in the third round of the FA Cup.[13] He was named on the bench in the following game for the first time in the EFL Championship as an unused substitute in a 2–0 win against Derby County side on 11 January 2019[14] He played his first minutes of Championship football the following week when he came on in the 76th minute for Mateusz Klich in Leeds' 2–1 defeat to Stoke City.[15][16] Stevens featured as an unused substitute on the bench for the 1st team squad in the Championship on several occasions, but still featured regularly for Carlos Corberán's Leeds United under 23's side over the course the 2018/19 season,[17] that won the PDL Northern League 2018/19 Season by winning the league, they then became the national Professional Development League Champions by beating Birmingham City in the final.[18] He made his second Championship appearance on 21 December 2019, in Leeds' 2–1 defeat at Fulham when he came on as a 72nd-minute substitute for Luke Ayling

Greenwood – 1 FA cup appearance (2nd half substitute)

Davis (Not “Davies”) – 14 games (9 league, 5 cup) over three seasons
After impressing for Leeds' Under 23s,[5] Davis was promoted to the first team and was named as an unused substitute on several occasions by head coach Bielsa before making his debut for the club on 23 December 2018, when he started in a 3–2 win against Aston Villa at Villa Park after Barry Douglas fell ill before kickoff.[6] Davis was regularly named as an unused substitute on the bench for the first team squad in the Championship, but still featured regularly for Carlos Corberán's Leeds United under 23s side over the course the 2018–19 season,[9] that won the PDL Northern League 2018–19 season and became the national Professional Development League champions by beating Birmingham City in the final.[10] His first start of the 2020–21 season came on 16 September 2020 in Leeds' 1–1 draw against Hull City in the EFL Cup. Hull went on to win 9–8 on penalties.[12] Davis made his Premier League debut for Leeds, as a second half substitute in Leeds' 1–1 draw with Manchester City on 3 October 2020

Shackleton – 68 appearances in total (57 League, 9 Cup) over 4 seasons

The following four are new (the potential 1st team play if not Leeds as a club) this season, and their use has been forced on Bielsa, hardly something to be celebrated as a piece of great management!

Summerville
Cresswell
Gelhardt
McInsstry

So, of the names you have given it would be fair (I would suggest) that Clarke, Meslier (hardly an Academy or youth team graduate, but I’ll let that slide), Stevens, Shackleton and Davis have been given what you might call an opportunity, so 5 of your 17!!!!. ALL the rest have been used for a spare few minutes, not even close to being the kind of opportunity to show their worth that you suggest the likes of Roberts, Rodrigo, Firpo etc etc should be given. Fair do’s, they aren’t transfers in (except perhaps Meslier), but some have been given 15 minutes to show their 1st team worth, and yet that “debut” (some lasting no more than a few minutes) is considered by the great god Bielsa as adequate to assess 1st team worth, when he is quite prepared to give wastes of space such as Roberts entire f00king games to show how useless he is, magic, pure f00king magic

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Ok, many thanks for the names, most obliged.

Lets have a close look at what followed those debut you’re so anxious to congratulate Bielsa about;

Jack Clarke – 22 games (21 league, 1 cup)

Casey – 3 games (all cup, 1 at least as substitute). Made his professional debut on 7 December 2019 as an 85th-minute substitute for Mateusz Klich in a 2–0 victory at Huddersfield Town.[6][7] .Casey made two further appearances for Leeds' first team across the 2020–21 season, both in cup competitions

Meslier – 53 appearances, (50 league, 3 cup).

Edmondson – 2 games, both as subs (1 each in 2107/18 & 2018/19) – Edmondson debuted for Leeds in the Championship on the last day of the season, 6 May 2018, as a 73rd-minute substitute in a 2–0 home victory against Queens Park Rangers, at 16 years of age.[ He made one league appearance as a substitute for the first team.

McAlmont – Did not play in the 1st team in a league match whilst Leeds have been in the Championship or the PL, played twice in the EFL cup. He was given his first team debut by head coach Marcelo Bielsa on 13 August in the EFL Cup against Salford City, coming on as a substitute for Jack Clarke in the 70th minute.[9] He made his first Leeds start on 27 August 2019 in Leeds' EFL Cup match against Stoke City, with Leeds losing on 4–5 on penalties after a 2–2 draw.[10]

Gotts – 1 game for the 1st team in two seasons - As of 12 December 2019, he had featured on the first-team substitute's bench over 30 times for the first team, but had yet to make his senior debut.[6][7] He made his long-awaited debut by starting in the FA Cup on 6 January 2020 in a 1–0 defeat against Premier League side Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium.[
Gotts won Leeds United’s Academy Player of the Year award at the clubs end of season awards on 24 July 2020.[

Bogusz – 1 league and 2 cup appearances
He made his senior debut for Leeds on 27 August 2019 in an EFL Cup match against Stoke City, with Leeds losing on 4–5 on penalties after a 2–2 draw in normal time.[17][18] Bogusz made his league debut for the club in the final game of the season in a 4–0 victory against Charlton Athletic.[20]
His first start of the 2020–21 season came on 16 September 2020 for Premier League Leeds in a 1–1 draw against EFL League One side Hull City in the EFL Cup, with Hull winning 9-8 on penalties.[21]

Odour – 1 appearance as an 85th minute substitute

Temenuzhkov (you nearly got that spelling right) 1 appearance as a 79th minute substitute
He made his professional first team debut on 6 January 2019 during a 2–1 defeat to Queens Park Rangers in the third round of the FA Cup, as a 79th-minute substitute for Tom Pearce

Stevens – 6 appearances, (5 league, 1 cup) He was named in a Leeds first team squad in a competitive game for first time on 6 January 2019 when he was named on the bench, during a 2–1 defeat to Queens Park Rangers in the third round of the FA Cup.[13] He was named on the bench in the following game for the first time in the EFL Championship as an unused substitute in a 2–0 win against Derby County side on 11 January 2019[14] He played his first minutes of Championship football the following week when he came on in the 76th minute for Mateusz Klich in Leeds' 2–1 defeat to Stoke City.[15][16] Stevens featured as an unused substitute on the bench for the 1st team squad in the Championship on several occasions, but still featured regularly for Carlos Corberán's Leeds United under 23's side over the course the 2018/19 season,[17] that won the PDL Northern League 2018/19 Season by winning the league, they then became the national Professional Development League Champions by beating Birmingham City in the final.[18] He made his second Championship appearance on 21 December 2019, in Leeds' 2–1 defeat at Fulham when he came on as a 72nd-minute substitute for Luke Ayling

Greenwood – 1 FA cup appearance (2nd half substitute)

Davis (Not “Davies”) – 14 games (9 league, 5 cup) over three seasons
After impressing for Leeds' Under 23s,[5] Davis was promoted to the first team and was named as an unused substitute on several occasions by head coach Bielsa before making his debut for the club on 23 December 2018, when he started in a 3–2 win against Aston Villa at Villa Park after Barry Douglas fell ill before kickoff.[6] Davis was regularly named as an unused substitute on the bench for the first team squad in the Championship, but still featured regularly for Carlos Corberán's Leeds United under 23s side over the course the 2018–19 season,[9] that won the PDL Northern League 2018–19 season and became the national Professional Development League champions by beating Birmingham City in the final.[10] His first start of the 2020–21 season came on 16 September 2020 in Leeds' 1–1 draw against Hull City in the EFL Cup. Hull went on to win 9–8 on penalties.[12] Davis made his Premier League debut for Leeds, as a second half substitute in Leeds' 1–1 draw with Manchester City on 3 October 2020

Shackleton – 68 appearances in total (57 League, 9 Cup) over 4 seasons

The following four are new (the potential 1st team play if not Leeds as a club) this season, and their use has been forced on Bielsa, hardly something to be celebrated as a piece of great management!

Summerville
Cresswell
Gelhardt
McInsstry

So, of the names you have given it would be fair (I would suggest) that Clarke, Meslier (hardly an Academy or youth team graduate, but I’ll let that slide), Stevens, Shackleton and Davis have been given what you might call an opportunity, so 5 of your 17!!!!. ALL the rest have been used for a spare few minutes, not even close to being the kind of opportunity to show their worth that you suggest the likes of Roberts, Rodrigo, Firpo etc etc should be given. Fair do’s, they aren’t transfers in (except perhaps Meslier), but some have been given 15 minutes to show their 1st team worth, and yet that “debut” (some lasting no more than a few minutes) is considered by the great god Bielsa as adequate to assess 1st team worth, when he is quite prepared to give wastes of space such as Roberts entire f00king games to show how useless he is, magic, pure f00king magic

Thank you for picking up typos - kind of says it all!


…. but once more you pivot your argument and assign what you would like to argue against to others.

Not a youngster as didn’t quite make his debut until he was just 20 but currently we have four players who gwt regular game time in Meslier, Shackleton, Struijjk and Robert’s so the idea Bielsa doesn’t promote young players is nonsense.

A lot of the others will come through and get time but he also has to manage the senior players too.

Summerville looks like getting games and Cresswell too - that makes 6 whixh is a pretty decent number irrespective of what you think of the incumbents in the team.

I am sure Joffy will blow the hinges off the door and force his way in too.

I would much rather be in the Prem with Bielsa and the gaps and flaws we have than be stuck in the EFL with Monk or Heckingbottom.

[WTF11]

Thank you for picking up typos - kind of says it all!


…. but once more you pivot your argument and assign what you would like to argue against to others.

Not a youngster as didn’t quite make his debut until he was just 20 but currently we have four players who gwt regular game time in Meslier, Shackleton, Struijjk and Robert’s so the idea Bielsa doesn’t promote young players is nonsense.

A lot of the others will come through and get time but he also has to manage the senior players too.

Summerville looks like getting games and Cresswell too - that makes 6 whixh is a pretty decent number irrespective of what you think of the incumbents in the team.

I am sure Joffy will blow the hinges off the door and force his way in too.

I would much rather be in the Prem with Bielsa and the gaps and flaws we have than be stuck in the EFL with Monk or Heckingbottom.

Not typos, mistakes. Pay attention to detail and you make fewer mistakes (says it all really). Haven't change my argument one iota, whatever use Bielsa makes of those few who do get an "opportunity" is forced on him by injury or suspension. That hasn't changed one bit since his first days at the club to the present day, exemplified by his preference for the likes of Roberts to Summerville when substitution was forced by Raphinas injury.

I genuinely hope those who were forced on Bielsa as a result of current injuries remain as 1st team participants, they deserve it (including Gelhardt (where the f00k did "Joffy" come from????)). But please don't credit Bielsa with "giving" these or the majority of those you name with a "debut". Given the choice he would still have Casilla in goal and Costa and Roberts as starters.

[WTF11]

Davies played a lot of games and then apparently developed an attitude issue (even KP in an interview alluded to it).

I was asked to provide the names Oz and there they all are every one of them played for the first team under Bielsa and some a fair bit - so to say he never ever plays kids is wrong.

Blooded far more than people might remember.

I am pretty sure at least 7 or 8 of the current u23 will get blooded at some point and even more impressively a number of those look like making it.

Talk about being economical with the exactitude! "Every one of them played for the 1st team under Bielsa and some a fair bit". Yeah, 5, 10, maybe even 20 minutes!

You introduced the concept of "debuts" which were "given" by Bielsa. My beef with the guy is opportunity, not some 5 minute cameo never to be repeated.