Wembley...behind closed doors.

[ramAnag]

How sad and shameful that this is what we’ve come to.
The scenes and experiences of last summer against Italy ruined what should have been the greatest national football occasion since 1966.
It would be nice to think that those responsible could be punished accordingly, but, as ever, they won’t be.
Who though is to blame? Well, the thugs and bullies who pushed their way through disabled entrances and then occupied seats refusing to move when the actual ticket holder arrived for one, but also a system which allowed genuine fans access to tickets for the relatively minor matches and then put tickets for the semi and the final out of the financial reach of ordinary fans. In addition the powers that be who failed to organise proper policing of the event (I don’t blame stewards paid a pittance for failing to stand up to hard core thugs) and then there is the mentality we saw from some commentator/official(?) or other yesterday who justified the booing of rival anthems as just ‘a bit of pantomime’. No it isn’t...it’s a national embarrassment to most of us.
Things really have to change. Thoughts?

[Andy_Faber]

How sad and shameful that this is what we’ve come to.
The scenes and experiences of last summer against Italy ruined what should have been the greatest national football occasion since 1966.
It would be nice to think that those responsible could be punished accordingly, but, as ever, they won’t be.
Who though is to blame? Well, the thugs and bullies who pushed their way through disabled entrances and then occupied seats refusing to move when the actual ticket holder arrived for one, but also a system which allowed genuine fans access to tickets for the relatively minor matches and then put tickets for the semi and the final out of the financial reach of ordinary fans. In addition the powers that be failed to organise proper policing of the event (I don’t blame stewards paid a pittance for failing to stand up to hard core thugs) and then there is the mentality we saw from some commentator/official(?) or other yesterday who justified the booing of rival anthems as just ‘a bit of pantomime’. No it isn’t...it’s a national embarrassment to most of us.
Things really have to change. Thoughts?

Thugs/freeloaders: identify them, apply the law to them, ban them from football.

Ticket prices: good luck suppressing supply/demand, tickets should be non transferable above face value though

Policing: should be higher for big games and added to ticket prices

Anthems: you know my view from the past, home anthems should be sung with gusto, away anthems should be respected, but there’s a wider issue that our own anthem/flag aren’t respected enough by our own population

[ramAnag]

Thugs/freeloaders: identify them, apply the law to them, ban them from football.

Ticket prices: good luck suppressing supply/demand, tickets should be non transferable above face value though

Policing: should be higher for big games and added to ticket prices

Anthems: you know my view from the past, home anthems should be sung with gusto, away anthems should be respected, but there’s a wider issue that our own anthem/flag aren’t respected enough by our own population

If only...a tad idealistic, possibly especially during a pandemic.

There was a lack of fairness for those, not me, in the various England supporters clubs. Can’t remember for sure now but I had a guy doing some work for me at the time who got very affordable tickets for the earlier matches, including Germany, but then found himself completely priced out as tickets were snapped up by celebs and other ‘worthies’. We need to address that.

Agreed. You can’t rely on stewards at huge matches.

Vicious circle Andy. Those you speak of are going to struggle to respect our anthem/flag when others with the flag draped around their shoulders or wearing nationalistic badges including the UJ are the very ones conspicuously and vociferously jeering the anthems of others. Having attended many RU, RL and Cricket internationals...this seldom happens with other sports.

[Andy_Faber]

Vicious circle Andy. Those you speak of are going to struggle to respect our anthem/flag when others with the flag draped around their shoulders or wearing nationalistic badges including the UJ are the very ones conspicuously and vociferously jeering the anthems of others. Having attended many RU, RL and Cricket internationals...this seldom happens with other sports.

But that’s muddled thinking. Clear thinking Patriots seeing our own national flag disrespected would respond by flying/singing in a respectful manner. Now here’s a thought: those who claim that the fellah who Murdered the poor MP was not representative of his religion and that it should be respected (fair point IMO) should also agree that our flag in the hands of a thug is not representative of our country - sadly ‘they’ don’t.

[ramAnag]

But that’s muddled thinking. Clear thinking Patriots seeing our own national flag disrespected would respond by flying/singing in a respectful manner. Now here’s a thought: those who claim that the fellah who Murdered the poor MP was not representative of his religion and that it should be respected (fair point IMO) should also agree that our flag in the hands of a thug is not representative of our country - sadly ‘they’ don’t.

Sorry, Andy...I’m not sure it’s me who’s guilty of ‘muddled thinking’ on this one.

Firstly your attempt to link this topic to the murder of David Amess, or Jo Cox for that matter, seems tenuous in the extreme.
Secondly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who supports their country but is not actually a monarchist.
Not sure how you fly ‘in a respectful manner’ but it would be utterly hypocritical of me and a great many others to sing the National Anthem - which I don’t think I’ve done since I was nine or ten - when, without going over old ground, I don’t actually believe a word of it.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry, Andy...I’m not sure it’s me who’s guilty of ‘muddled thinking’ on this one.

Firstly your attempt to link this topic to the murder of David Amess, or Jo Cox for that matter, seems tenuous in the extreme.
Secondly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who supports their country but is not actually a monarchist.
Not sure how you fly ‘in a respectful manner’ but it would be utterly hypocritical of me and a great many others to sing the National Anthem - which I don’t think I’ve done since I was nine or ten - when, without going over old ground, I don’t actually believe a word of it.

I never made the link between David Amess andJo Cox but somehow knew you would

[Geoff Parkstone]

If only...a tad idealistic, possibly especially during a pandemic.

There was a lack of fairness for those, not me, in the various England supporters clubs. Can’t remember for sure now but I had a guy doing some work for me at the time who got very affordable tickets for the earlier matches, including Germany, but then found himself completely priced out as tickets were snapped up by celebs and other ‘worthies’. We need to address that.

Agreed. You can’t rely on stewards at huge matches.

Vicious circle Andy. Those you speak of are going to struggle to respect our anthem/flag when others with the flag draped around their shoulders or wearing nationalistic badges including the UJ are the very ones conspicuously and vociferously jeering the anthems of others. Having attended many RU, RL and Cricket internationals...this seldom happens with other sports.

Pricing on tickets is all relative. Tickets for final of Euro 2020 started at £ 250 and rose to around £ 750 I believe. Expensive, but compare it to the £ 21,000 you would have to pay today to get a Qatar world cup final ticket. Compare it to the $ 7-10,000 face value ticket to see the superbowl 2021.

Yes there were no doubt very much cheaper tickets to see earlier round games, but a meal in Macdonald's might cost £ 5 as opposed to £ 300 at the Fat Duck in Bray. That doesnt excuse diners kicking in the doors at the Fat Duck to steal a free meal.

yes it was depressing to see the tv cameras picking out all the "celebrities" who had somehow managed to get tickets at the expense of the loyal England supporters, but its always the same: and how many of the thugs stameding into the ground do you really have sympathy for?

[ramAnag]

Pricing on tickets is all relative. Tickets for final of Euro 2020 started at £ 250 and rose to around £ 750 I believe. Expensive, but compare it to the £ 21,000 you would have to pay today to get a Qatar world cup final ticket. Compare it to the $ 7-10,000 face value ticket to see the superbowl 2021.

Yes there were no doubt very much cheaper tickets to see earlier round games, but a meal in Macdonald's might cost £ 5 as opposed to £ 300 at the Fat Duck in Bray. That doesnt excuse diners kicking in the doors at the Fat Duck to steal a free meal.

yes it was depressing to see the tv cameras picking out all the "celebrities" who had somehow managed to get tickets at the expense of the loyal England supporters, but its always the same: and how many of the thugs stameding into the ground do you really have sympathy for?

Firstly your figures are wrong. It’s all a tad anecdotal, but the guy I was referring to paid only around £50 (if memory serves) for his Germany ticket but the last I heard was being expected to shell out around £1000 for the final.

No idea about Qatar but two wrongs etc.

Where have I defended ‘thugs steaming into the ground’? I haven’t and never would. That’s why they were top of my list of those to blame. I have no ‘sympathy for any of them’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Strange that because my "wrong" figure of £ 250 was seen on a genuine ticket to the match that a client of mine had bought - he then had to pay scalpers many thousand for a couple more tickets, but that was his choice. £ 50 may well have been the price for the quarter final, bt it was a quarter final, not the final..... and perhaps (I dont know) he had to buy that ticket "blind" without knowing if England were even playing in that game?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Who is to blame? A hard one to answer other than "Joe Public" in the form of so called fans. I dont think the face value of the tickets was out of line for an international final but the reduced capacity certainly drove the black market prices up into the thousands, or more. But, as we all (wrongly?) suspected at Hillsborough, ticket less fans forcing themselves in lay at the heart. It's easy to blame inadequate stewarding or policing, but that's like blaming your poor quality door when burglars kick it in and steal your priceless collection of Rams 1970s programs and give your disabled granny a kicking. End of the day though, probably Johnson and his Tory cronies at fault 😀