Serious val question

[Omegstrat6]

We know that a lot of things aren't right at the club (understatement I know!) and that we have a seemingly disinterested owner who will not invest and a relatively poor group of players but bottom line is that a key part of any managers role is to get the best out of his resources. That is part of any managers job and surely you won't hit any KPIs/performance targets without achieving this first. Clearly Val is not doing this however because we know that these players can do much better. It really doesn't matter how good he was elsewhere or what he has done in the past or what he may do elsewhere in the future. He has had long enough here to prove himself and it isn't working. You would not accept this from managers in other sectors so why should we here? Think Leicester's post pretty was much spot on.

[viaductbaggies]

You are such a one eyed m oron it is shocking. We should be 4th behind sheff utd if it was based on budget and Squad quality so being 3rd means he is doing OK.

Name the sh it players he has made worse you lai loving Bell End?

Always deflecting the criticism away from that c??? Aren't you?

Would love to hear your thoughts on this latest horror show

[animallittle3]

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Oh come on pal. This is a damn site worse than us just not running away with the league. 8 games out of the last 12 we've not even scored! We've had strikers in the past that haven't had that kind of run. We don't have a great side but it's certainly not as bad as Val's made it.

And we keep hearing about waiting for transfer windows but most signings under Val have flopped. Mowatt hasn't pulled up a performance for about the last 10 games!

Val did well with you but you must see that some managers have a level, he's not at ours. We'd kill for Roy Hodgson to come back but he was dismal at Liverpool, it's the way it is.

Anybody can fail at a club if it's not the right fit , even Fergie failed at St Mirren .

I just take exception that he's " a fool " and it's hard to swallow for us because since he left us it's destroyed us .

You aren't happy and we are heading towards becoming the worst championship team in history .

We are frustrated too to say the least and it looks like nobody has benefited from Val which just adds to the frustration .

[Leicesterbaggie]

I take your point animal that just like some players, some managers just aren't the correct fit for a certain club. I've never called him a fool but I do think that his tactics are archaic and belong to a different era.

If I could just say that in 1953 the Hungarians came to this country and with a completely new system of total football destroyed England 6-3 at Wembley. England had never lost on home soil before. They then proceeded to beat us 7-1 in Hungary. At the same time we had a manager called Vic Buckingham who, as a manager was, as were the Hungarians, years ahead of his time. In that same time we had a certain Ronnie Allen who played as what today is known as a false no. 9. The majority of centre forwards in those days were big, battering ram type of players. We were one of, if not the best side in the country at this time. Now remember, this was seventy years ago and to my mind the football that Ismael advocates for us is returning to the football played prior to the Hungarians and Buckingham. I, personally, think that this is unacceptable as surely football has moved on.

I accept that since then we have had other sides whose football has left a lot to be desired but I'm afraid that what we are producing today has got to be as poor as anything that I can remember.

[regis80]

Is this some joke that we should give the manager a few transfer windows, in order to get his team to play in his way? 4 transfer windows? This is suicidal in my view, we are not big spenders and can’t say many in the championship are either. If a manger showed some promise then I can understand (as a long term plan). But that is hardly evident is it? One dimensional tactics says it all. A great manager adapts to what he’s inherited. Fat Sham did, Roy did with Meite got him playing better than previously. There’s many more examples I can give.

Some may say he’s learning, sorry we don’t give that time here at Albion. That’s it’s not saying we have the divine to return to the Prem. I’m pretty certain a better manager would put us in contention at least. Yes we need an overhaul with our owners, but we still have sufficient players that can do the job. Play the football Val.

[mickd1961]

In essence there’s no such thing as “the wrong type of football”, it’s more a case of whether it suits your club’s DNA and the players at your disposal.

My dad pointed this out to me during the 1988 Euros in which Holland beat Russia ( I think ) in the final.

He pointed out how many 40-60 yard balls Gullit and Rijkard and co played in that era, he made the point that these balls were however, pinpoint and played up to quality forwards such as Van Basten.

These forwards had a superb first touch and technique and could always find space.

There’s a massive difference between Livermore humping upfield to Hughill compared to Gullit sending one to Van Basten.

Club DNA is important as well, regardless of “success” passé, West Ham, Tottenham and Everton fans won’t stand for the long ball game.

Clubs like Millwall and Stoke will tow large degree.

You have to know and respect the history of a club before taking a job on.

Ossie Ardiles understood and look at the football we played in division 3.

[animallittle3]

I take your point animal that just like some players, some managers just aren't the correct fit for a certain club. I've never called him a fool but I do think that his tactics are archaic and belong to a different era.

If I could just say that in 1953 the Hungarians came to this country and with a completely new system of total football destroyed England 6-3 at Wembley. England had never lost on home soil before. They then proceeded to beat us 7-1 in Hungary. At the same time we had a manager called Vic Buckingham who, as a manager was, as were the Hungarians, years ahead of his time. In that same time we had a certain Ronnie Allen who played as what today is known as a false no. 9. The majority of centre forwards in those days were big, battering ram type of players. We were one of, if not the best side in the country at this time. Now remember, this was seventy years ago and to my mind the football that Ismael advocates for us is returning to the football played prior to the Hungarians and Buckingham. I, personally, think that this is unacceptable as surely football has moved on.

I accept that since then we have had other sides whose football has left a lot to be desired but I'm afraid that what we are producing today has got to be as poor as anything that I can remember.

But surely your CEO knew the style of football Val had us playing last season which brought us so many wins .

Almost everybody in the game knew how we'd achieved it , even Chelsea couldn't handle it for large parts of the FA cup tie we had against them , they scraped a 1-0 win with a late goal and were thankful to get away with it because we should have beaten them if we'd taken a number of chances .

This is what I can't understand about you appointing Val , surely the CEO understands the Albion DNA and the way you play is as important as the results .

Its like clubs who appointed Warnock or Mick McCarthy , they know what they are going to get and it's not always pretty but they know that .

I mean who are the real fools here , Val's done what Val does and was unlikely to move towards another style of play that had given him so many championship points at Oakwell .

[Dubbag]

This is what I can't understand about you appointing Val , surely the CEO understands the Albion DNA and the way you play is as important as the results .

I don't think so.......CEOs come and go. But the football club stays in the same place....I think very few CEOs even understand the roots of football in any club......all change.......everybody kisses the badges now....

[Leicesterbaggie]

But surely your CEO knew the style of football Val had us playing last season which brought us so many wins .

Almost everybody in the game knew how we'd achieved it , even Chelsea couldn't handle it for large parts of the FA cup tie we had against them , they scraped a 1-0 win with a late goal and were thankful to get away with it because we should have beaten them if we'd taken a number of chances .

This is what I can't understand about you appointing Val , surely the CEO understands the Albion DNA and the way you play is as important as the results .

Its like clubs who appointed Warnock or Mick McCarthy , they know what they are going to get and it's not always pretty but they know that .

I mean who are the real fools here , Val's done what Val does and was unlikely to move towards another style of play that had given him so many championship points at Oakwell .

Surely though, when you realise something isn't working, which it obviously isn't, you have to adapt and do something different. As the saying goes ' It's lunacy do keep doing the same thing and expect different results'.

[wbaliquidator]

I think it’s time to pull the plug on Vals self proclaimed theory of success in football.
The premise was having achieved success at one club with players of modest skill and experience that could not be simply explained due to chance alone he could then repeat and improve further the outcome with a better set of players elsewhere.

However there was distortion in the experiment as he was allowed to bring in 5 players of his own choosing unlike at his previous club.
In summary he has not been able to reproduce the same result. In fact it could be argued that the result has been the total opposite that the combined total is less than the sum of the individuals.

This happens often with experiments, even ones where bias has been introduced ( 5 selected players introduced ).