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Thread: Serious val question

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    Again Matt - totally agree especially with Tolluch. Some on here tonight are on crack!!!

    Bruce - ha ha
    Zero spend - is that Val’s fault

    Livermore - Phillips - Bartley - Ajayi - Robinson - Hugill are average championship players at best!

    Johnstone - still poor kicking out’

    Mowatt best player by far and where did he come from???

    Deluded supporters we have!!! Who would want to come to West Brom? Some were saying Lampard - do we honestly think he would ruin his CV to come to us on zero spend!

    The only criticism I have of Val - he was a naive fool to come to our club with zero ambition - zero spend and a f uck whit called Ken who knows f uck all about football!
    The youngsters are not getting a chance though even when other players are performing like s h I t.

    You cannot defend this continued three at the back mate surely?

    It’s our biggest problem and only the manager can change this god forsaken system.

    He’s going to hang himself by being so stubborn with this b o l l o x.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    The youngsters are not getting a chance though even when other players are performing like s h I t.

    You cannot defend this continued three at the back mate surely?

    It’s our biggest problem and only the manager can change this god forsaken system.

    He’s going to hang himself by being so stubborn with this b o l l o x.
    In fairness to him he got the core of our team right and he opted for youth players as opposed to signings. As for giving youth a chance , would you as fans be willing to do the same given the pressure level whilst in third?

    Sides change how they play to combat your tactics because they aren’t afforded the luxury of stroking it around the back 9 for half an hour

    Promotion is promotion whether it’s glorious football or not. Don’t fall into the trap of West Ham of whether it’s the ‘west ham’ way etc. Allardyce got them promoted and are they bothered now they’re in the PL?

    We’ve started tippy tapping it and guess who I’d rather have as manager?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    The youngsters are not getting a chance though even when other players are performing like s h I t.

    You cannot defend this continued three at the back mate surely?

    It’s our biggest problem and only the manager can change this god forsaken system.

    He’s going to hang himself by being so stubborn with this b o l l o x.
    The three at the back isn't the problem. How many managers switch from 4 to 3/5 at the back regularly? You can't because it creates too much confusion. Defending at this level is about familiarity, like wing backs knowing when to bomb on or when to support the 3. We don't have the sharpest bunch, but even the best players don't like being moved around too much at the back. If he changes the 3 at the back, he drastically changes the whole system and he won't do that.

    I would argue that the front 3 isn't working the most. How many games have Philipps, Huggill and Robinson changed through a stroke of brilliance? A top assist or a goal out of nothing? Grant is absolutely carrying the forward line. I think Val expects us to concede a few with the way we are setup and therefore we need to score more goals. That front 3 simply don't create enough for one another. Too many sloppy touches and bad passes.

  4. #24
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    I don't see any other manager out there who would have got as many points on the board as we have now, with the squad we have available.

    I know the manager takes responsible for everything, but its a miracle we're a point off the automatic places 1/4 into the season given how we've played.

    There are two fundamental issues. One is, we're playing ugly football. So we win ugly or we lose ugly. When we win ugly like v Blues we can tolerate it. When we lose ugly, it isn't pleasant to watch.

    The 2nd is that I was expecting high pressing, high intensity football. This dropped off after the Sheff Utd game. We look absolutely knackered in some games, especially 2nd half. If he can get them pressing high then I think we can be successful under Val. If we don't, then I can only see ugly football and unhappy fans.

    I also can't see us sacking him anytime soon, he signed a 4 year deal at the start of the season, and I think we need to give him at least 2/3 transfer windows to bring his own players in. To be fair we have improved the squad under him in the window we just had without spending a penny. And you would hope we have at least some of the Periera money to spend in January.
    Last edited by WBA123; 21-10-2021 at 07:38 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggiematt View Post
    The three at the back isn't the problem. How many managers switch from 4 to 3/5 at the back regularly? You can't because it creates too much confusion. Defending at this level is about familiarity, like wing backs knowing when to bomb on or when to support the 3. We don't have the sharpest bunch, but even the best players don't like being moved around too much at the back. If he changes the 3 at the back, he drastically changes the whole system and he won't do that.

    I would argue that the front 3 isn't working the most. How many games have Philipps, Huggill and Robinson changed through a stroke of brilliance? A top assist or a goal out of nothing? Grant is absolutely carrying the forward line. I think Val expects us to concede a few with the way we are setup and therefore we need to score more goals. That front 3 simply don't create enough for one another. Too many sloppy touches and bad passes.
    I agree that three at the back isn't the problem. The problem is the three players who he uses to play this system. Our back three are totally paceless and cannot hope to defend a ball over the top. The biggest culprit is Bartley whi should be nowhere near this team at the moment as his form is utterly atrocious.

  6. #26
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    One thing I would also say is that when you have a team that has a losing mentality (And I dont mean that rude, but you only won 5 and lost 22 out of 38), it can sometimes be very difficult to reverse that psychology. So to get a team that was losing 60% of the time to now only losing 15% of the time isn't a bad return, likewise you've won more games already than you did all last season. The championship is a tough old division where unlike the PL everyone can beat anyone home or away.

    The mentality to a large degree has been/is getting reversed. How many teams have we seen over the recent years tumble down 2 divisions in quick succession, or struggle for their first year back in the championship

    Look at when you got promoted last time around - we were probably one of the better teams you faced - yet we only stopped up with seconds to spare.

    If you are playing as bad as it sounds and in 3rd then thats surely not a bad carry on

    I think a bit of patience is needed and judge them at the end of the season, because if you get promoted the style of football will be long forgotten. The style he adopts is probably more suited to the PL as teams won't pump the ball forward, but will try to play from the back which will play into your hands with the high press. Sides at this level will see you as a big scalp and unfortunately park the old bus!

  7. #27
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    There's no point in Ismael saying that we shouldn't over react after last night's defeat. He should react. He should look at the deficiencies in both tactics and individual performances and try to improve on them. I'm fed up with no 'over reaction' attitude. There should be a reaction.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by renno View Post
    One thing I would also say is that when you have a team that has a losing mentality (And I dont mean that rude, but you only won 5 and lost 22 out of 38), it can sometimes be very difficult to reverse that psychology. So to get a team that was losing 60% of the time to now only losing 15% of the time isn't a bad return, likewise you've won more games already than you did all last season. The championship is a tough old division where unlike the PL everyone can beat anyone home or away.

    The mentality to a large degree has been/is getting reversed. How many teams have we seen over the recent years tumble down 2 divisions in quick succession, or struggle for their first year back in the championship

    Look at when you got promoted last time around - we were probably one of the better teams you faced - yet we only stopped up with seconds to spare.

    If you are playing as bad as it sounds and in 3rd then thats surely not a bad carry on

    I think a bit of patience is needed and judge them at the end of the season, because if you get promoted the style of football will be long forgotten. The style he adopts is probably more suited to the PL as teams won't pump the ball forward, but will try to play from the back which will play into your hands with the high press. Sides at this level will see you as a big scalp and unfortunately park the old bus!
    I agree we need patience, the football isn't great and its a needs must at the moment. I also think he hasn't got the squad he wants, so he needs to buy at least 2 or 3 who can improve the first XI right away.

    One thing I though about last night was this, last year the Championship allowed 5 subs. In a high intensity team where you can change half of the outfield players that would have been a big advantage. This year being only 3 subs, do you think that would negatively affect a Val team?

  9. #29
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggiematt View Post
    The three at the back isn't the problem. How many managers switch from 4 to 3/5 at the back regularly? You can't because it creates too much confusion. Defending at this level is about familiarity, like wing backs knowing when to bomb on or when to support the 3. We don't have the sharpest bunch, but even the best players don't like being moved around too much at the back. If he changes the 3 at the back, he drastically changes the whole system and he won't do that.

    I would argue that the front 3 isn't working the most. How many games have Philipps, Huggill and Robinson changed through a stroke of brilliance? A top assist or a goal out of nothing? Grant is absolutely carrying the forward line. I think Val expects us to concede a few with the way we are setup and therefore we need to score more goals. That front 3 simply don't create enough for one another. Too many sloppy touches and bad passes.
    Three at the back is exactly the problem.

    Opposing managers are openly saying it’s where they are exploiting us.

    It’s obvious from the comments some are making that they themselves have never played the game themselves at a competitive level, I have and the latter part of my playing life was as a right back.

    The manager then decided to try 3-4-3 and I ended up as the right sided player in the 3.

    It’s hard to describe just how different the game becomes, positionally you are left with a constant headache and the space on your flanks is so easy to exploit.

    I hated my life in that position!

    You need unbelievable pace and a real ability to read the game to play that role and you also need full backs who NEVER switch off abs always work back which invariably they don’t.

    Even my local non league side Stourbridge tried it and ditched it because we kept getting torn apart down the flanks.

    The problem starts with the back three and then gets worse when the front three run out of energy to close down.

    Football is a simple game made difficult by managers overthinking it.

    You can play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 and still press.

    Lack of flexible thinking is just plain ridiculous.

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