O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[drillerpie]

There's a very big difference between people you don't know online telling you what they think you should be doing and the government/media/police telling you what you should do with the option of varying degrees of force, with Klopp encouraging the latter to go to the extreme. There's a clear distinction between the two sides on the question of freedom and individuals taking responsibility for their own health. To describe somebody as a Nazi for basically supporting personal choice and less restriction on freedom would be absurd.

Ok I wasn't trying to lure you into calling those people Nazis, although God knows everyone's a Nazi nowadays so it can't be long before someone does.

I get that it's the coercive element of government rules that you feel makes a Nazi, rather than the experimental aspect.

My question really was a genuine question - what would you call those who persuade people not to have the vaccine, using misleading information to do so, and who recommend infection with Covid in order to get antibodies, despite the knowledge of the long term consequences?

[drillerpie]

Ok I wasn't trying to lure you into calling those people Nazis, although God knows everyone's a Nazi nowadays so it can't be long before someone does.

I get that it's the coercive element of government rules that you feel makes a Nazi, rather than the experimental aspect.

My question really was a genuine question - what would you call those who persuade people not to have the vaccine, using misleading information to do so, and who recommend infection with Covid in order to get antibodies, despite the knowledge of the long term consequences?

*lack of knowledge

[bule1]

As a general point, I think people need to research what happened in Germany 1930's to 1945 to know what it a Nazi really is. Using that term in this context really belittles the horrific things they did.

[magpie_mania]

It's clear that the vaccine was developed much more quickly than others have been. But against that, so much more time would have been devoted to it over a short period of time. In addition, those developing them will have spent a lifetime working on vaccines.

I have had all 3 shots. No, I don't know all the in's and out's, and can't know what side-effects might be. But, my decision to have them was based on my trust of the scientists, doctors etc. who have urged us to have them.

I get all the concerns that some have made huge amounts etc., but I can't see what people like Chris Whitty and JVT have got to gain by encouraging it.

I trust them.

[upthemaggies]

Ok I wasn't trying to lure you into calling those people Nazis, although God knows everyone's a Nazi nowadays so it can't be long before someone does.

I get that it's the coercive element of government rules that you feel makes a Nazi, rather than the experimental aspect.

My question really was a genuine question - what would you call those who persuade people not to have the vaccine, using misleading information to do so, and who recommend infection with Covid in order to get antibodies, despite the knowledge of the long term consequences?

History may judge them to be heroes, who knows. "misleading" is an assumption - You could tell Mr X not to jump into the dangerous river because there are sharks in it, Mr Y comes along and proves there can't be any sharks , then Mr X jumps in and gets eaten by a crocodile.

Long term damage from Covid will presumably correlate with severity for the most part and nobody is factoring in the damage being done by lockdowns, constant fear campagns etc.

Which will ultimately do the most damage? Covid or trying to prevent Covid?

The psychological damage being done to children in particular must be enormous.

[upthemaggies]

it's not the conflict of interests and corruption they need to show (does anyone doubt how rife that is?), it's a credible narrative that pulls the wide range of actors together in a nefarioius plot to... what? Control humanity with a virus? with a vaccine? Kill us? what is 'their' end game as you see it?

I think it's most likely a number of different groups trying to seize the opportunity for a near global sized power grab, be it financial, political or 'ethical'. It's not just extremely wealthy or influential people driving this along. it's average people who think it will bring about a political utopia or a reverse to climate change or an end to all illness and human suffering etc. One group will eventually come to dominate but probably not until we've gone to war over it.

[BanjoPie]

History may judge them to be heroes, who knows. "misleading" is an assumption - You could tell Mr X not to jump into the dangerous river because there are sharks in it, Mr Y comes along and proves there can't be any sharks , then Mr X jumps in and gets eaten by a crocodile.

Long term damage from Covid will presumably correlate with severity for the most part and nobody is factoring in the damage being done by lockdowns, constant fear campagns etc.

Which will ultimately do the most damage? Covid or trying to prevent Covid?

The psychological damage being done to children in particular must be enormous.

Crikey, your brain must be completely fuddled either that or mine is!

[SaltySeaDog]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1472623144385011721

Not pushing any agenda here. Only 10 hospitalisations from omicron in the last week. Let's hope the percentages stay that low

[BigFatPie]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1472623144385011721

Not pushing any agenda here. Only 10 hospitalisations from omicron in the last week. Let's hope the percentages stay that low

I’m not sure what point Nawaz is making there, is it how successful the vaccines have been?

We appear to be in a de facto lockdown, where the government expect people to stay at home, but without giving businesses the necessary financial support.

It’s probably time to formalise it, but Johnson will be reluctant because he doesn’t want to upset the headbangers on his backbenches even more.

[americanpie]

Crikey, your brain must be completely fuddled either that or mine is!

Read this instead....................

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams
your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!