OT Hamilton

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm waiting for the race card to be played: it can't be far away. Not race, but rather race, that is, if you see what I mean

[ramAnag]

Ah I see or rather I'm still puzzled...

Me too...I mean my tyres last about 30,000 miles, even on Derbyshire’s potholed roads. How come F1 drivers need to change after about an hour?

[Trickytreesreds]

Me too...I mean my tyres last about 30,000 miles, even on Derbyshire’s potholed roads. How come F1 drivers need to change after about an hour?

You have tyres that last 30,000 miles? What are they from, the Flintstones?

[MadAmster]

The Verstappen camp is convinced that the FIA has been busy all year doing their level best to ensure Hamilton won the title. They believe they won despite FIA's best efforts not because of them.

With regard to yesterday, Hamilton was clearly faster all race. When Latifi hit the wall with 5 laps to go (how long before the conspiracy theories start?) the result was clear and Hamilton was winning his 8th title. Then, quite rightly, the safety car came in. The stewards said lapped cars would not be let through. Then Red Bull complained and they were let through. However, the rules state that ALL lapped cars should be let through. They decided to only let the 4 or 5 cars that were positioned between Hamilton and Verstappen and thereby create a 1 lap race wherein Lewis would start a few yards ahead on old slower hard tyres and Max on new faster soft ones. At that point it was all done and dusted. Had the rules been fully applied and all lapped drivers had been let through then they would have gone through the checkered flag still behind the safety car and Lewis would have won and gained his 8th title.

rA, the rules state that drivers have to use at least 2 different tyre types (hard/medium/soft known as slicks, i.e.. they have no profile) in a race. That is, unless it's raining when they have intermediates if it's not raining heavily and wets if it is raining heavily. It's a "team sport", is the reasoning. The pit crew is part of the team and they are brought into play by the enforced tyre changes. Not saying it's right or wrong but those are the rules. Depending on the track temperature and other factors, a tyre will last a certain number of laps. Deciding when to make a tyre change and to what tyre you should change is all part of the strategy/tactics. Possibly designed to make it less of "the fastest car wins"?

[swaledale]

Me too...I mean my tyres last about 30,000 miles, even on Derbyshire’s potholed roads. How come F1 drivers need to change after about an hour?

rA that I can understand, F1 tyres are completely different from normal road tyres and the stresses and strains on them in a race are massive.

[swaledale]

You have tyres that last 30,000 miles? What are they from, the Flintstones?

Well I get that at least from mine, doing a lot of motorway driving, but then maybe I don't accelerate or break hard all the time?

[Ramshank72]

Wonder how many miles they get on their knuckle skin in Notts?

[Andy_Faber]

Ah I see or rather I'm still puzzled but maybe its all a plot o ramp up the publicity around F1 and have a new champion?

IMO it was incompetence driven by a desire to provide a 'show'

The various TV interviews this am haven't helped as none got to the heart of the issue

The act of stopping for new tyres under safety car conditions has been part of F1 since safety cars were introduced in 1983. Its a bit of an arcane rule that allows it but its well understood by teams and fans, and accepted that it proffers a potential advantage (or no-one would do it). TBH its given Hamilton an advantage MANY times so from that point of view its tough titty Lewis, the dice rolled for Max this time

HOWEVER, there are two relevant rules regarding the resumption of racing at the end of a safety car period -

Rule 1: ALL lapped cars MUST overtake the leader (sometimes called 'unlapping themselves') in order to get out of the leading group's way, and this rule applies wherever such cars are in the train of cars behind the safety car and leader. What happened yesterday was that only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen were allowed through, not those further back in the pack. So, IMO Mercedes have a good case for saying that the race was started before the rules allow ALTHOUGH the effect of allowing other lapped cars to unlap themselves would have only delayed the (correct) start of the race by a few seconds (However, see rule 2)

Rule 2: After the last lapped car has unlapped itself, the safety car MUST remain in situ for a full lap before pulling over and allowing the race proper to start. This allows the recently unlapped cars to drive away at racing speeds and again get out of the way (ie well ahead of on the track) the leading group. What happened yesterday was that the safety car only stayed in situ for a quarter of a lap before pulling over - if it had waited the full lap, there would have been no legitimate opportunity for Verstappen to overtake. So again IMO Mercedes have a good case for saying the race started before the rules allow

HOWEVER there is a third rule which, applies (I paraphrase) 'the race director can ignore all other rules and do whatever he wants' and I think that was what FIA relied on yesterday. I also think Merc will argue that that's an onerous rule (similar to onerous contract terms in contract law)

Its a huge **** up and I mentioned earlier that there IS a precedent in US roundy roundy racing, the 1981 Indy 500, and that took from May to October to resolve, in the courts. That actually led indirectly to the downfall of the US regulators, USAC, I think FIA are too powerful for that to happen

All the above may have clarified but I bet it hasn't made the sport any more appealling!

Note MA sorry for duplication our posts crossed and your narrative regarding unlapped cars and mine agree

[ramAnag]

You have tyres that last 30,000 miles? What are they from, the Flintstones?

Lol. Tbh I’ve never really counted, but I generally change my car every three years and, punctures apart, I can’t remember the last time I had to buy a new tyre before offloading the car prior to MOT.

On topic...can anyone recall another ‘sport’ where an AF type explanation of the ‘rules’ is necessary? Returning briefly to football...after a period when it seems to have been used properly, I believe some of the recent VAR decisions have been appalling, but I don’t see managers and chairmen running off to seek legal redress.

Personally, as I’ve said before, I find F1 about as interesting as Scalextric but each to their own...this though is making a laughing stock of the ‘sport’.

[ramAnag]

rA, the rules state that drivers have to use at least 2 different tyre types (hard/medium/soft known as slicks, i.e.. they have no profile) in a race. That is, unless it's raining when they have intermediates if it's not raining heavily and wets if it is raining heavily. It's a "team sport", is the reasoning. The pit crew is part of the team and they are brought into play by the enforced tyre changes. Not saying it's right or wrong but those are the rules. Depending on the track temperature and other factors, a tyre will last a certain number of laps. Deciding when to make a tyre change and to what tyre you should change is all part of the strategy/tactics. Possibly designed to make it less of "the fastest car wins"?

I was just being tongue in cheek about the tyres.

As for a ‘team sport’...I’m sorry I don’t buy that. I’m sure the pit crews are highly skilled and dedicated individuals but there is no such sport as ‘speedy wheel changing’. Virtually all sports have backroom staff, physios, kitmen, etc and I know there are ‘teams’ of individuals involved but F1 isn’t, imo, a ‘team sport’.