Seven Covid deaths

[Returnofrros]

Very interesting question. I didn't think that there was a moral question involved. It seemed to me that being vaccinated etc was the right thing to do to help society. If you didn't want to do that then the right thing to do would be to deny yourself access to the venues that chose to accept and apply the regulations that society had agreed.
There is a very serious point being made that Omicron is not as dangerous as it is being portayed in the MSM and medical experts. The allegations are that there are people in charge who are making a crisis out of this so that they can retain control.
I think that is completely wrong and have said so on this forum. You will remember that my comments were echoed by Andrew Neil who wrote what I thought was a well argued case for the argument.

Couldn't disagree more.

Society hasn't agreed, sturgeon and authoritarian Govts have imposed and frightened people have bent over and took it.

Well not let venues decide if they want to be a COVID vacc passport venue or non COVID Vax?....I know which I would go to.

What scares the living **** out of me is you are a rational, civilised and articulate poster but want to accept and are actively encouraging this segregation.......forcing the young who have absolutely no need to be vaccinated to protect the elderly and at risk and it doesn't actually protect them

And I'll reiterate I'm vaccinated and at risk but I'd never ever expect anyone to change their life to accommodate me

The hypocrisy is staggering

It's the fearful who should be changing their life habits and weighing up their own individual risk not those who want to live.

Let's lock everyone up over say 65 to protect the NHS, alternatively let's send them all to Switzerland for a wee Jag on their 80th birthday ....ridiculous yes....but not unimaginable now.

Do you not realise how dangerous a path this is?

[Returnofrros]

Very interesting question. I didn't think that there was a moral question involved. It seemed to me that being vaccinated etc was the right thing to do to help society. If you didn't want to do that then the right thing to do would be to deny yourself access to the venues that chose to accept and apply the regulations that society had agreed.
There is a very serious point being made that Omicron is not as dangerous as it is being portayed in the MSM and medical experts. The allegations are that there are people in charge who are making a crisis out of this so that they can retain control.
I think that is completely wrong and have said so on this forum. You will remember that my comments were echoed by Andrew Neil who wrote what I thought was a well argued case for the argument.

And what's your opinion of the transvaccinated?

[BCram]

So in a nutshell... the UK government has got us into so much debt that the only possible way out of it is to carry on the way we are? With the same system that got us into that debt?

Now I am no real fan of independence,not really a fan of the union either,so I sit in the middle ground where I don't really care either way, but that argument seems illogical to me

And that is the problem in a nutshell. The way flows of capital are directed is the basic problem. We, ie Britain needs to start paying our way. Give up budget deficit financing and try to bring in taxes to balance our books. Counter intuitively having low tax rates can attract more money making businesses and employment and raise the value of taxes gathered. That's why Lord Frost resigned because he feared that Boris is in the grip of a group who think high tax rates are needed to help balance the books and pay down debts.
FWIW I think the SNP should dial down the 8ndependence stuff and try to encourage businesses to choose to invest in Scotland rather than England or Wales. Dundee was successful 8n the 50's 60'swith NCR and Timex and several others like Ferranti and Michelin. I just don't see an independent Scotland being able to function effectively while we are dealing with covid, net carbon zero and the complete write off of fissil fuels. What are the North Sea gas flows like? We might be able to argue that energy security of supply trumps net carbon zero. Now that would be good.

[BCram]

And what's your opinion of the transvaccinated?

Had to look up the word. Seem to be in the same group as those who are not vaccinated.

[BCram]

Couldn't disagree more.

Society hasn't agreed, sturgeon and authoritarian Govts have imposed and frightened people have bent over and took it.

Well not let venues decide if they want to be a COVID vacc passport venue or non COVID Vax?....I know which I would go to.

What scares the living **** out of me is you are a rational, civilised and articulate poster but want to accept and are actively encouraging this segregation.......forcing the young who have absolutely no need to be vaccinated to protect the elderly and at risk and it doesn't actually protect them

And I'll reiterate I'm vaccinated and at risk but I'd never ever expect anyone to change their life to accommodate me

The hypocrisy is staggering

It's the fearful who should be changing their life habits and weighing up their own individual risk not those who want to live.

Let's lock everyone up over say 65 to protect the NHS, alternatively let's send them all to Switzerland for a wee Jag on their 80th birthday ....ridiculous yes....but not unimaginable now.

Do you not realise how dangerous a path this is?

I don't think we are all free to do what we want. I think we all give up complete freedom of action in return for a society that cares for all. The price of that society is that we all lose some of our freedom. I do think that you make sense when you can demonstrate that we are being manipulated by corrupt political motives but I am confident that the public will see through the manipulation and democratically replace the politicians.
I am afraid I am a very grey place just now where certainty is absent.

[Returnofrros]

I don't think we are all free to do what we want. I think we all give up complete freedom of action in return for a society that cares for all. The price of that society is that we all lose some of our freedom. I do think that you make sense when you can demonstrate that we are being manipulated by corrupt political motives but I am confident that the public will see through the manipulation and democratically replace the politicians.
I am afraid I am a very grey place just now where certainty is absent.

I'm going to use you as a barometer, because if your thinking is the public opinion on vaccine passports and health procedure apartied.....then we are all ****ed and there is no society.

I'm "fighting" fighting to protect the society we have not some Orwellian dystopian 1 opinion fits all society.

When your opinion changes the tide will have turned.

[islaydarkblue]

Couldn't disagree more.

Society hasn't agreed, sturgeon and authoritarian Govts have imposed and frightened people have bent over and took it.

Well not let venues decide if they want to be a COVID vacc passport venue or non COVID Vax?....I know which I would go to.

What scares the living **** out of me is you are a rational, civilised and articulate poster but want to accept and are actively encouraging this segregation.......forcing the young who have absolutely no need to be vaccinated to protect the elderly and at risk and it doesn't actually protect them

And I'll reiterate I'm vaccinated and at risk but I'd never ever expect anyone to change their life to accommodate me

The hypocrisy is staggering

It's the fearful who should be changing their life habits and weighing up their own individual risk not those who want to live.

Let's lock everyone up over say 65 to protect the NHS, alternatively let's send them all to Switzerland for a wee Jag on their 80th birthday ....ridiculous yes....but not unimaginable now.

Do you not realise how dangerous a path this is?

My mother suffered from MND for 7 years and I would have gladly taken her to Switzerland to put her out of her misery. My mother was 74 years old when she died in her sleep. Sadly the ‘do-gooders at Westminster and Holyrood will not allow assisted dying to become the law. The former SNP MSP Margo McDonald tried to get assisted dying become the law in Scotland but it was voted out.

[islaydarkblue]

And that is the problem in a nutshell. The way flows of capital are directed is the basic problem. We, ie Britain needs to start paying our way. Give up budget deficit financing and try to bring in taxes to balance our books. Counter intuitively having low tax rates can attract more money making businesses and employment and raise the value of taxes gathered. That's why Lord Frost resigned because he feared that Boris is in the grip of a group who think high tax rates are needed to help balance the books and pay down debts.
FWIW I think the SNP should dial down the 8ndependence stuff and try to encourage businesses to choose to invest in Scotland rather than England or Wales. Dundee was successful 8n the 50's 60'swith NCR and Timex and several others like Ferranti and Michelin. I just don't see an independent Scotland being able to function effectively while we are dealing with covid, net carbon zero and the complete write off of fissil fuels. What are the North Sea gas flows like? We might be able to argue that energy security of supply trumps net carbon zero. Now that would be good.

American companies such as NCR and Timex were encouraged to come to Dundee to set up factories in the Government owned industrial estates. In the late 1940’s the jute mills were starting to close down and the move was to bring in light engineering firms to Dundee to replace the polluting jute mills.
My father in law was in the first group of 12 NCR employees who started at the NCR Camperdown factory. My father in law was clock number 12 because he was the tallest person in the initial group of 12 workers.

[Returnofrros]

My mother suffered from MND for 7 years and I would have gladly taken her to Switzerland to put her out of her misery. My mother was 74 years old when she died in her sleep. Sadly the ‘do-gooders at Westminster and Holyrood will not allow assisted dying to become the law. The former SNP MSP Margo McDonald tried to get assisted dying become the law in Scotland but it was voted out.

That's not the point I'm making.

80th birthday, gone ......healthy or not ....to protect NHS just end the wrinkles life ....ridiculous yes ....but in a softer less extreme way Govts are restricting other people's live to protect the NHS and the fearful.

Not against people having the right to choose between life or the eternal oblivion of death (how could I be when I believe in personal responsibility and how can law makers be against when they allow doctors to kill the unborn) but the dangers are pretty obvious, elderly, infirm, terminal or mentally ill or incapacitated might well feel pressure to do so.

It's a very tricky area but I do believe in people's right to choose.

[islaydarkblue]

That's not the point I'm making.

80th birthday, gone ......healthy or not ....to protect NHS just end the wrinkles life ....ridiculous yes ....but in a softer less extreme way Govts are restricting other people's live to protect the NHS and the fearful.

Not against people having the right to choose between life or the eternal oblivion of death (how could I be when I believe in personal responsibility and how can law makers be against when they allow doctors to kill the unborn) but the dangers are pretty obvious, elderly, infirm, terminal or mentally ill or incapacitated might well feel pressure to do so.

It's a very tricky area but I do believe in people's right to choose.

Are you aware that a person who has never worked a day in their life qualifies for the ‘big’ weekly state pension when they reach the state pension qualifying age of 67 whereas a person who has worked all their days and has been ‘contracted out’ thanks to contributing to their company pension will receive a smaller state pension when the reach 67 years of age.
People who had worked all their lives and were already receiving their state pension when the new ‘big’ state pension started in July 2016 do not qualify to receive the new ‘big’ weekly state pension.
If you have ever been contracted out you will not qualify to receive the new ‘big’ state pension which is taxable.