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Thread: Benitez sacked...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramshank72 View Post
    I don't understand why these rules are in place, it's not like an unqualified coach is putting someone's life at risk. It's a form of discrimination
    Its discriminatory only in the sense that any professional qualification is discriminatory... would you want to go to a doctor or a lawyer who had not got "his (other genders are available) badges"? Its a bit different with accountants as anyone seems to be able to call themselves one of those, not sure if there is a professional qualification for teaching??

    But as a football manager needs to have a bit of all those skill sets to do the job, it seems quite reasonable to have a qualification requirement.

  2. #12
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    There doesn't need to be a chartered institute for telling people to kick a ball around, "or equivalent experience" would suffice for this job. Then again, using your example, many teachers don't have any real world experience yet they're happy to impart their beliefs on our kids, so maybe suggesting experience is discriminatory in itself?

  3. #13
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    I worked outside the teaching profession from 71 to 02. Taught from 02 to 14 before retiring at 60. I never imparted beliefs on the kids unless specifically asked "what I thought of...". I taught the 2 subjects I was employed to teach. Kept things to facts. When I was a class mentor I always put all sides out there as opposed to my own thoughts on a matter. Give them the facts/points of view and let them make their own mind up.

    I will admit though that there are teachers who will try to push their own political beliefs. I would add I don't think the "brainwashers" are anywhere near outnumbering the sensible in the profession.

    GP - does a Bachelor degree in teaching count as a professional qualification in your eyes. Mine involved not only the course content but also aspects like counselling, discipline, the Law with regard to what you can and can't do/say, psychology and more. Spotting pupils who don't respond to your teaching style and how to ascertain the right style for that pupil. It isn't unusual to have half a dozen different "lesson styles" going on simultaneously and different pupils working at different speeds. Not easy to do.

  4. #14
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    I’m at a loss to understand how we’ve gone from Benitez/Rooney to teachers, however if we must...to GP...yes you do, although it seems much easier to qualify as a teacher these days than used to be the case...in fact we seem to be slipping back to post war days.

    To Ramshank...why single teachers out? I’m not certain how or why you think teachers are happy to ‘impart their beliefs on our kids’ and why you believe ‘real world experience’ - however you’re going to define that - is more pertinent to teaching than a host of other professions i.e. social work, policing, nursing, being a GP etc. You do seem to have an odd obsession with discrimination and what constitutes ‘discriminatory’ though.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    GP - does a Bachelor degree in teaching count as a professional qualification in your eyes. Mine involved not only the course content but also aspects like counselling, discipline, the Law with regard to what you can and can't do/say, psychology and more. Spotting pupils who don't respond to your teaching style and how to ascertain the right style for that pupil. It isn't unusual to have half a dozen different "lesson styles" going on simultaneously and different pupils working at different speeds. Not easy to do.
    Not as such, no - but that doesn't mean to say I think its easy, well apart from the long holidays . I was more thinking about post graduation qualifications and training, such as doctors, lawyers, vets some accountants etc have to go through. It seems you need a degree to empty bins nowadays and so I was enquiring about "beyond university" training which rA confirmed as required.

    A football manager (as opposed to pure coach) needs a skill set way beyond mere footballing and athletic skills, unless all the off field aspects are devolved to a director of football or equivalent, which encompass aspects of the skills of all the professions I noted.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    I’m at a loss to understand how we’ve gone from Benitez/Rooney to teachers, however if we must...to GP...yes you do, although it seems much easier to qualify as a teacher these days than used to be the case...in fact we seem to be slipping back to post war days.

    To Ramshank...why single teachers out? I’m not certain how or why you think teachers are happy to ‘impart their beliefs on our kids’ and why you believe ‘real world experience’ - however you’re going to define that - is more pertinent to teaching than a host of other professions i.e. social work, policing, nursing, being a GP etc. You do seem to have an odd obsession with discrimination and what constitutes ‘discriminatory’ though.
    rA, perhaps you need to revive your teaching skills and give Ramshank some WOKE lessons

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    rA, perhaps you need to revive your teaching skills and give Ramshank some WOKE lessons
    Hmmm...that’s exactly what I wouldn’t do...not now...not ever!
    But it’s very difficult to teach certain texts - from Macbeth to Oliver Twist - without tacitly ‘supporting’ certain viewpoints and it’s very difficult to support/defend a kid who is being bullied/victimised by others without espousing the opinion that bullying is wrong...largely because I can’t think of an example of when it isn’t.

  8. #18
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    Accountants and teachers were suggested, I'll happily single out another profession if you prefer?
    I suppose if you're someone with the luxury of an expensive education, you wouldn't emphasise with those who did not have such opportunity. Not everyone can afford a degree or to take time out of their working day to get these non-essential qualifications.
    Not that I'd put Rooney in the poverty bracket, but he's worked hard under unprecedented circumstances, and shouldn't be discouraged due to lack of a specific coaching badge.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramshank72 View Post
    Accountants and teachers were suggested, I'll happily single out another profession if you prefer?
    I suppose if you're someone with the luxury of an expensive education, you wouldn't emphasise with those who did not have such opportunity. Not everyone can afford a degree or to take time out of their working day to get these non-essential qualifications.
    Not that I'd put Rooney in the poverty bracket, but he's worked hard under unprecedented circumstances, and shouldn't be discouraged due to lack of a specific coaching badge.
    My education wasn’t expensive...not back in the 1970’s...it was a choice which, I accept, wasn’t available to everyone.
    The qualifications I have were ‘essential’ if I wanted to pursue my career of choice.
    Rooney isn’t being discouraged...but if he wants to progress further then he knows he needs the required coaching certificate. I can see the point of that maybe seeming a bit daft for someone with all his experience, but those are the rules and to make an exception for him would, imo, be far more discriminatory than the current situation.

    P.S. There are plenty of examples of great footballers who’ve been dreadful managers. Rooney seems to be making the transition, as did Brian Clough, but it is by no means a gimme.
    Last edited by ramAnag; 18-01-2022 at 02:49 PM.

  10. #20
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    I did my degree whilst working full time. 6 till 10 Tuesday evenings at Uni and Friday from 1400 to 2200 after having given 4 or 5 lessons that day. Paid for it myself.

    As for top players being a shoe in for a manager's job.....

    I give you Gary Neville, Shearer, Ince and our very own Toddo and Roy Mac and many others who couldn't cut it.

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