O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[irishpete]

No, didn't say bomb a nuclear power. I said send bombers(fighter jets) over there to the Ukraine. Have the Jets sitting on the ground. Show Putin we aren't the P ussys he reckons we are. He has been laughing his balls off at the French & Germans running to him. Great publicity for him in the World spot light & in Russia

[sidders]

I am not a Putin apologist and i agree that he is a dangerous man. My wife said it would solve the whole thing if someone 'took him out' but I disagree. The next Putin is already being trained up and the general opinion is that he will be even more offensive. The Russian people are ferociously nationalistic and that always needs to be taken into account. However, that nationalism also applies to separate entities like Georgians, Belorussians, Siberians, etc. It's a hard act to hold them together because sometimes their interests collide (against each other and against Mother Russia).
Irish Pete, sanctions didn't work against North Korea because the people have absolutely no power of protest and can be easily quelled. Russia is a vast province with far greater capacity for protest and non-cooperation.
I read an interesting article which compared the Ukraine's possible allying with Nato as comparable with when Cuba was considering installing a Russian rocket base. No way was the USA gojng to allow that. I remember going through a ridiculous exercise at school whereby the teaching staff were doing dummy runs to get us to take shelter under our desks. Yes, that's how seriously the threat of war was being taken in 1963?
This may be stretching the comparison too far but it is always healthy in diplomacy to consider a situation from your opponent/enemy's point of view.

[frenchmagpie]

Follow the money! It's basically a gangster regime and London is stuffed full of looted Russian cash and assets and I bet most western countries are too. Just look at the Riviera property market and yachts. Just sieze the lot, any assets owned by Russian citizens or associates. But Boris won't want to as the Tories are funded by them!

[irishpete]

I am not a Putin apologist and i agree that he is a dangerous man. My wife said it would solve the whole thing if someone 'took him out' but I disagree. The next Putin is already being trained up and the general opinion is that he will be even more offensive. The Russian people are ferociously nationalistic and that always needs to be taken into account. However, that nationalism also applies to separate entities like Georgians, Belorussians, Siberians, etc. It's a hard act to hold them together because sometimes their interests collide (against each other and against Mother Russia).
Irish Pete, sanctions didn't work against North Korea because the people have absolutely no power of protest and can be easily quelled. Russia is a vast province with far greater capacity for protest and non-cooperation.
I read an interesting article which compared the Ukraine's possible allying with Nato as comparable with when Cuba was considering installing a Russian rocket base. No way was the USA gojng to allow that. I remember going through a ridiculous exercise at school whereby the teaching staff were doing dummy runs to get us to take shelter under our desks. Yes, that's how seriously the threat of war was being taken in 1963?
This may be stretching the comparison too far but it is always healthy in diplomacy to consider a situation from your opponent/enemy's point of view.

Sid

You really think the Russian people can protest, dream on. Sanctions won't work, unless you hit them hard, not p ussy footing around. All or nothing. Give him an inch he'll take a mile

[irishpete]

Follow the money! It's basically a gangster regime and London is stuffed full of looted Russian cash and assets and I bet most western countries are too. Just look at the Riviera property market and yachts. Just sieze the lot, any assets owned by Russian citizens or associates. But Boris won't want to as the Tories are funded by them!

Know of people who have holiday homes in Spain. Surrounded by Russians

[Mapperleypie]

Follow the money! It's basically a gangster regime and London is stuffed full of looted Russian cash and assets and I bet most western countries are too. Just look at the Riviera property market and yachts. Just sieze the lot, any assets owned by Russian citizens or associates. But Boris won't want to as the Tories are funded by them!

Absolutely this. We don't have to set one boot on the ground in Ukraine at this time. Many of those closest to Putin and many other extraordinarily rich Russians that possibly disagree with him but have remained silent so far would soon change their tune if their assets were frozen.

Johnson is more likely to make Putin a lord as opposed to closing the UK bank accounts of his mates. Him and his corrupt Tory/Brexit mates are completely compromised. A truly sad state of affairs.

[drillerpie]

I am not a Putin apologist and i agree that he is a dangerous man. My wife said it would solve the whole thing if someone 'took him out' but I disagree. The next Putin is already being trained up and the general opinion is that he will be even more offensive. The Russian people are ferociously nationalistic and that always needs to be taken into account. However, that nationalism also applies to separate entities like Georgians, Belorussians, Siberians, etc. It's a hard act to hold them together because sometimes their interests collide (against each other and against Mother Russia).
Irish Pete, sanctions didn't work against North Korea because the people have absolutely no power of protest and can be easily quelled. Russia is a vast province with far greater capacity for protest and non-cooperation.
I read an interesting article which compared the Ukraine's possible allying with Nato as comparable with when Cuba was considering installing a Russian rocket base. No way was the USA gojng to allow that. I remember going through a ridiculous exercise at school whereby the teaching staff were doing dummy runs to get us to take shelter under our desks. Yes, that's how seriously the threat of war was being taken in 1963?
This may be stretching the comparison too far but it is always healthy in diplomacy to consider a situation from your opponent/enemy's point of view.

Sid, I see where you're coming from but I think it is quite different to Cuba.

I think they have already offered him a deal whereby no missiles would be stationed in Ukraine, but even if they did, having missiles either in Russia or in Cuba is quite a difference in terms of distance, whereas NATO already has missiles in Germany, which is not a huge difference to having them in Ukraine. Russia keeps missiles in the Baltic area as well - as is their right to do on their territory.

It's not really about missiles. He just wants to control the old Soviet republics, especially Ukraine.

[i961pie]

Can you imagine if the USA (especially Trump) had done something like what Putin's doing the streets of London would be overflowing with protesters.

[Big Bob]

So, any thoughts on what’s going to happen now after Putin‘s speech and recognition of the breakaway regions in Ukraine?

We'll stick our noses in with the yanks then you can kiss your ass goodbye as it'll go global

[upthemaggies]

We'll stick our noses in with the yanks then you can kiss your ass goodbye as it'll go global

Let's take the positives from this. If it does go to a nuclear war, at least Fword won't be seeing the Premier League again.