O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[drillerpie]

https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/cru...-history-chart

This is a good chart to get an idea of the global oil price around that time. Look at how much Russia was able to sell its main export for in the nineties, look where it was in 97, then look what happened to the price in the noughties (Putin came to power in 2000).

He's not an economic genius, he was ust very lucky.

[andy6025]

I didn't find this guy particularly impressive, but I know Andy considers him the number 1 expert on that part of the world

I haven’t yet listened to the podcast linked, but I actually found the late Stephen Cohen to be the number 1 expert on US-Russia relations.

Here’s an example talk from him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-pUj3V...Bjb2hlbg%3D%3D

[Old_pie]

Putin made it clear re ukraine not being in nato, this war is down to US foreign policy in my opinion.

Seems to me to be Russian policy. NATO did not invade the countries that applied to join. Those countries all knew the history of Russia and raced to protection. Some didn't, Finland chose to remain independent of NATO, that was until Russia's imperialistic ambitions became clear. Sweden is in the queue and it is galling to see how Hungary and Turkey are putting up barriers. Shame that countries can't be kicked out but seems them's the rules.

[andy6025]

Pile of blatant lies.

It seems that Ukraine’s chief negotiator is perpetuating the pile of blatant lies. Maybe he’s a Russian agent?

https://www.irishsun.com/news/274044...2-kievs-top-mp

[Jampie]

It seems that Ukraine’s chief negotiator is perpetuating the pile of blatant lies. Maybe he’s a Russian agent?

https://www.irishsun.com/news/274044...2-kievs-top-mp

Source is RT dot com, the guy is russian born and was widely condemned for proposing to re-open the crimea canal after Russia illegally siezed Crimea. Which side is he on do you reckon? I don't know but I would regard what he's saying with some suspicion.

And then there's this quote:

'Agreeing to neutrality and giving up NATO membership would have required changing the constitution of Ukraine, Arakhamia explained. "Secondly, there was no trust in the Russians that they would do this. This could only be done with security guarantees," he told 1+1.'

From the article you linked. That doesn't sound like they were anywhere near close to an agreement. Russia made an 'offer' that nobody trusted.

[andy6025]

Source is RT dot com, the guy is russian born and was widely condemned for proposing to re-open the crimea canal after Russia illegally siezed Crimea. Which side is he on do you reckon? I don't know but I would regard what he's saying with some suspicion.

And then there's this quote:

'Agreeing to neutrality and giving up NATO membership would have required changing the constitution of Ukraine, Arakhamia explained. "Secondly, there was no trust in the Russians that they would do this. This could only be done with security guarantees," he told 1+1.'

From the article you linked. That doesn't sound like they were anywhere near close to an agreement. Russia made an 'offer' that nobody trusted.

Wow, so the Ukrainian government appointed a Russian agent to be their chief negotiator in the peace talks with Russia? That’s a real bombshell! How on earth did that ever get past them?

But wait, there’s more! The guy is not only still part of the Ukrainian government, but he’s even in Zelensky’s own party!

Do you think Zelensky knows about this? I think maybe you should send Zelensky a letter to notify him asap.

…Or do you think maybe Zelensky is in on it too?

[Old_pie]

It seems that Ukraine’s chief negotiator is perpetuating the pile of blatant lies. Maybe he’s a Russian agent?

https://www.irishsun.com/news/274044...2-kievs-top-mp

https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows...ells-france-24

"Arakhamia, a close associate of Zelensky, was part of a Ukrainian delegation involved in fruitless peace negotiations with Russia in the early weeks of the conflict. He said that what Moscow then presented as a "peace agreement" was actually an unfeasible "capitulation", based on the belief that Ukrainians "would be weak". "

Can't believe (well maybe I can) that you want Russia to win, to see the West bow down to Putin. It's only a short hop for you over the Arctic for you to join your comrades.

[Jampie]

Wow, so the Ukrainian government appointed a Russian agent to be their chief negotiator in the peace talks with Russia? That’s a real bombshell! How on earth did that ever get past them?

But wait, there’s more! The guy is not only still part of the Ukrainian government, but he’s even in Zelensky’s own party!

Do you think Zelensky knows about this? I think maybe you should send Zelensky a letter to notify him asap.

…Or do you think maybe Zelensky is in on it too?

Honestly what is the point of your prevarications and fantasies? I debunked your nonsense and you, naturally, skipped that bit. Do you really think you've converted a single person here to the Russian cause?

[andy6025]

Honestly what is the point of your prevarications and fantasies? I debunked your nonsense and you, naturally, skipped that bit. Do you really think you've converted a single person here to the Russian cause?

You debunked the nonsense that I posted… by quoting it?

[Jampie]

You debunked the nonsense that I posted… by quoting it?

Yes. Apparently you hadn't read the article as it disagreed with your assertion. The talks where nowhere near an agreement because Ukraine can no longer trust Russia. That's in the article you linked.