OT perspective/ Ukraine/Russia

[ramAnag]

Here’s a bit of perspective that should make us recognise how difficult the situation is.
Since the war/invasion began the EU has sent one billion euros worth of aid to Ukraine. That’s the equivalent of what they spend EACH DAY on Russian oil and gas. (Source BBC News).

[swaledale]

Here’s a bit of perspective that should make us recognise how difficult the situation is.
Since the war/invasion began the EU has sent one billion euros worth of aid to Ukraine. That’s the equivalent of what they spend EACH DAY on Russian oil and gas. (Source BBC News).

The other bit of perspective is the sickening site of Johnson and his cronies trying to use the war as a diversion from their incompetent, corrupt and morally bankrupt government. Wonder how many sheeple will fall for that?

[Trickytreesreds]

Here’s a bit of perspective that should make us recognise how difficult the situation is.
Since the war/invasion began the EU has sent one billion euros worth of aid to Ukraine. That’s the equivalent of what they spend EACH DAY on Russian oil and gas. (Source BBC News).

And the uk has sent £100 million in aid and spent £144 M on NLAW missiles alone (more coming as asked for) when no one else would.
Artillary and Star streak missiles now on route as well)god knows the cost of thiose)

So in effect, the UK has sent a tenth of what 27 countries have sent between them just in aid,never mind the weapons.
But lets not let a good old UK bash, get in the way of the usual narrative,
Pathetic.

[Trickytreesreds]

UK 'to send armoured vehicles to aid Ukraine' - report
British military chiefs are drawing up plans to send armoured vehicles to Ukraine, according to The Times.

The paper said the Ministry of Defence is considering options like sending a protected patrol vehicle, such as the Mastiff, or a vehicle like the Jackal, which can be used as a reconnaissance or long-range patrol vehicle.

The vehicles could allow Ukrainian forces to push further forward towards Russian lines.

They would be stripped of sensitive equipment and British forces would be sent to a country next to Ukraine to carry out training, a defence source told The Times.

More support, including anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, would be announced within days, the source said.

Ukraine's foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, is in Brussels for talks with NATO allies.

At a news conference with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, he said: "My agenda is very simple. It has only three items on it. It's weapons, weapons, and weapons."

He continued: "We know how to win, but without sustainable and sufficient supplies of all weapons requested by Ukraine, these wins will be accompanied with enormous sacrifices."

"The more weapons we get, and the sooner they arrive in Ukraine, the more human lives will be saved," he said.

[ramAnag]

The other bit of perspective is the sickening site of Johnson and his cronies trying to use the war as a diversion from their incompetent, corrupt and morally bankrupt government. Wonder how many sheeple will fall for that?

Again I totally agree. My ‘perspective’ comment wasn’t meant to detract from that...it was just an observation about how difficult the situation is and what a mess has been created by the dependency of many NATO nation’s on Russian oil and gas.

[swaledale]

It's a difficult one, and I'm probably going to make myself unpopular here, but is Putin any different to Kennedy in the Bay of Pigs invasion and subsequent Cuban issues. Russia doesn't want NATO nukes on his border just like USA didn't want them in Cuba....or indeed later in Mexico.

Methodology might be more ruthless and I'm not saying I agree with what he's doing, but I can see both sides of the argument

The flaw in that argument is that Ukraine gave up its nukes in I think 1994 and would have remained neutral an agreement that was signed by US UK and Russia.

In any case with the range they have now, where Nukes are located is irrelevant.

What Putin doesn't want is a democratic state no longer under Russian influence on his border, as soon as Ukraine elected a government that was more west leaning and less inclined to be under Russia's sphere of influence, Putin as with every other autocratic leader, is afraid that Russia's people will see democracy in action and might like it or a form of it themselves, hence his power grab over the years.

Its a case of as he gets older Putin is increasingly paranoid as to what happens to him, has surrounded himself by yes people or people afraid to say the truth, has control over the state media which broadcasts nothing but false news.

The only people in Russia who think they are under threat are Putin and his cronies, Putin it seems want to drag Russia back to the "golden age" of the USSR.

[swaledale]

Again I totally agree. My ‘perspective’ comment wasn’t meant to detract from that...it was just an observation about how difficult the situation is and what a mess has been created by the dependency of many NATO nation’s on Russian oil and gas.

Yes but I have sympathy because surely trading with nations is one way of keeping things peaceful, the fact that the Russian's have an insane egomaniac is unfortunate, but generally nations that are economically connected tend not to want to rock the boat. This war clearly isn't in Russia's long term interests but thats leaders for you.

[ramAnag]

Yes but I have sympathy because surely trading with nations is one way of keeping things peaceful, the fact that the Russian's have an insane egomaniac is unfortunate, but generally nations that are economically connected tend not to want to rock the boat. This war clearly isn't in Russia's long term interests but thats leaders for you.

Agreed...indeed that has always been one of my many reasons for supporting membership of the EEC/EU.
Unfortunately the ‘economic connections’ between members of the western alliances (particularly Germany and France I believe) and Russia have badly backfired on this occasion and will continue to present a massive problem until Putin is ‘removed’ which doesn’t seem likely any time soon.
A similar quandary exists over Nuclear power. Years ago I opposed it, largely on the basis of an intuitive fear that such plants could become deadly targets for military/terrorist attack. Things seemed to settle down and I certainly had a rethink. Now the old fears have resurfaced and in any case I doubt there’s any ‘quick fix’ to the energy problem.

[swaledale]

Agreed...indeed that has always been one of my many reasons for supporting membership of the EEC/EU.
Unfortunately the ‘economic connections’ between members of the western alliances (particularly Germany and France I believe) and Russia have badly backfired on this occasion and will continue to present a massive problem until Putin is ‘removed’ which doesn’t seem likely any time soon.
A similar quandary exists over Nuclear power. Years ago I opposed it, largely on the basis of an intuitive fear that such plants could become deadly targets for military/terrorist attack. Things seemed to settle down and I certainly had a rethink. Now the old fears have resurfaced and in any case I doubt there’s any ‘quick fix’ to the energy problem.

Ah well thats politics (and life for you) not as black and white as some people seem to think.

By the way it is so refreshing not to have to read Thickys posts, I quickly realised he was incapable of independent thought or critical thinking and that posting corrections to his *******s was frankly a waste of time. Anyone with any intelligence will disregard him, the rest well if your simple then believe his fantasy views fine!

[ramAnag]

Ah well thats politics (and life for you) not as black and white as some people seem to think.

By the way it is so refreshing not to have to read Thickys posts, I quickly realised he was incapable of independent thought or critical thinking and that posting corrections to his *******s was frankly a waste of time. Anyone with any intelligence will disregard him, the rest well if your simple then believe his fantasy views fine!

I read them...I’ve just chosen not to respond for the last three or four weeks. So many better things to do, and at least it makes the forum a more peaceful place.