O/T:- Forest v Sheff Utd

[nw6pie]

Funnily enough, I went to the same school as Brian Kilcline, and I remember there being more Notts fans than Forest. But it wasn’t like you saw many kids “wearing the colours” either way, even when they beat those Swedish part-timers and Hamburg.

[ancientpie]

Notts will always attract the supporters who want something a bit different, the fact the majority of their class supports Forest means some will want to support Notts. We can't compete directly even in League 2 with a good Championship team or Premier league, what we will get are the people who like the underdogs with their own identity. Then there's the cost aspect. It doesn't really matter if Forest go up or stay strong in the Championship, we can't compete on a football level for fans, only as a viable alternative to the crowd.

I agree up to a point & think this is the reason we still see so many youngsters at our games (along with some arm twisting by parents) but the Prem is a different animal. The TV coverage, especially if you have BT sport is not much different between the Champ & the Vanarama but with the Prem the difference is massive & if you add the financial rewards of advertising etc plus parachute payments the reds going up has got to be bad news for us. For the reason you give I think we will still pick up a few kids but it will become harder & the chances are that we could also lose some. COYP

[garibaldi]

I cannot see any situation where forest going up is going to benefit Notts in fact I see the complete opposite & hope it never happens, it could well lead to us losing another 2 or 3 generations of potential fans. Anyone who supported us in the early 70s (pre Clough) will remember when we last genuinely challenged forest for superiority, then disaster struck they started winning things & we are still paying the price supporting them became the easy option & we lost 90% of the young support. Obviously their fan base is made up of descendants of the Clough bandwagon jumpers but over the last few seasons we have seen signs that supporting Notts isn't the weird choice that it was once seen & gates & more importantly for youngsters, credibility that it once was. However such is now the medias obsession with the Premier league that Forest joining the elite & getting the coverage & financial benefits that come with it I fear the worst, even if we enjoy a season of them getting stuffed every week & breaking all records the damage could be already done. COYP

You were nowhere near Forest's attendances for the whole 25 years before Clough joined except for a one off in 1973.

http://european-football-statistics....eague/notf.htm

http://european-football-statistics....eague/notc.htm

It's hilarious that this old wives' tale is still being spun in this day and age as fact despite a simple internet search scything it down every time.

[ancientpie]

You were nowhere near Forest's attendances for the whole 25 years before Clough joined except for a one off in 1973.

http://european-football-statistics....eague/notf.htm

http://european-football-statistics....eague/notc.htm

It's hilarious that this old wives tale is still being span in this day and age as fact despite a simple internet search scything it down everytime.

So what happened in 73 gari ? did your lot suddenly decide to have a season off? or was your support dwindling because we were at a level ? how far should we go back into history to prove a point? (we can go further than you) the fact is that in 73 your average home gate was in the 9,000s & a few years later you were averaging 30 odd thousand can you convince me that this was not bandwagon jumping on a grand scale? don't get me wrong all successful teams need bandwagon fans & I would like to think that if we were the team to make the investment & step we would have got them (although it did tickle me that people who needed directions to your ground were suddenly life long supporters) but my point is that we have & continue to compete with the remnants of these "fans" & their descendants, i realise that I am wasting my time arguing with somebody who chose the easy route but doesn't it seem ironic given your dislike for the Rams that you & yours have followed the sheep ? COYP

[keldsyke]

How Luton aren’t winning the second leg I’ll never know, but neither of Huddersfield or Luton look a real threat, whoever comes out on top tommorow will get promoted imo.

[garibaldi]

So what happened in 73 gari ? did your lot suddenly decide to have a season off? or was your support dwindling because we were at a level ? how far should we go back into history to prove a point? (we can go further than you) the fact is that in 73 your average home gate was in the 9,000s & a few years later you were averaging 30 odd thousand can you convince me that this was not bandwagon jumping on a grand scale? don't get me wrong all successful teams need bandwagon fans & I would like to think that if we were the team to make the investment & step we would have got them (although it did tickle me that people who needed directions to your ground were suddenly life long supporters) but my point is that we have & continue to compete with the remnants of these "fans" & their descendants, i realise that I am wasting my time arguing with somebody who chose the easy route but doesn't it seem ironic given your dislike for the Rams that you & yours have followed the sheep ? COYP

9000 was the anomaly not the rule. That is primary school level mathematics for comprehension. Therefore, your argument of Notts having bigger crowds before Clough is incorrect 24 times out of 25.

[upthemaggies]

9000 was the anomaly not the rule. That is primary school level mathematics for comprehension. Therefore, your argument of Notts having bigger crowds before Clough is incorrect 24 times out of 25.

It's obvious if you're not being a *** for being a ****'s sake that the trajectory of both the gates and league position had swung back in Notts favour and that it was down to one man that said trajectory was put into reverse with a brick resting on it.

Not seen an Fword fan on here for years, then one finally turns up when they're on the verge of their first ever play off final to give it large with Notts in non-league. Takes a special kind of person I suppose. 30,000 Fworders and it's this one, just this one who feels compelled to post here. I wonder why.

[garibaldi]

It's obvious if you're not being a *** for being a ****'s sake that the trajectory of both the gates and league position had swung back in Notts favour and that it was down to one man that said trajectory was put into reverse with a brick resting on it.

Not seen an Fword fan on here for years, then one finally turns up when they're on the verge of their first ever play off final to give it large with Notts in non-league. Takes a special kind of person I suppose. 30,000 Fworders and it's this one, just this one who feels compelled to post here. I wonder why.

Your trajectory was up and down and consistently below Forest's.

You shall be engaged in conversation whenever the topic is Nottingham Forest and whether the debate interests me. Don't sell yourselves short, I don't hold a grudge and I hope you go up.

Fallacy shall be corrected with fact however.

[upthemaggies]

Your trajectory was up and down and consistently below Forest's.

You shall be engaged in conversation whenever the topic is Nottingham Forest and whether the debate interests me. Don't sell yourselves short, I don't hold a grudge and I hope you go up.

Fallacy shall be corrected with fact however.

Ok, so we have now established that you are being a **** for the sake of it.

In case anybody is in any doubt or you yourself have no self awareness and/or happen to be one of a large percentage of Fword fans who have no idea that football existed before 1977/78......

A club that finishes 2nd in the 1st tier in 1967 and then finishes 16th in the 2nd tier in 1975, having *mostly* finished lower in the table each season than the preceding one... that would be regarded by anybody with a genuine level of basic intelligence to be on a downward trajectory, with the gate figures obviously reflecting that downward trend.

Likewise a club that's finished 20th in the bottom tier in 1967 and then finished, following two promotions, 5th in the 2nd tier in 1976, the 2nd successive season ABOVE Fword***.... would be said to be on an upward trajectory.

No club's trajectory is going to be a straight line without kinks in it over the course of 8-9 years, but you'd be either a dimwit or somebody trying to take an argument in a slightly different direction to save face over an initial false claim to not see the general trend, especially one as pronounced as that seen between the two Nottingham clubs from 1967 to 1976.

****a matter of months before the arrival of Peter Taylor, who was key to Clough's success to be fair. Had Sheff Utd or anybody else had come in for Sirrel around 12 months earlier, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Dunnett might have considered Clough, seeing that BC did end up going to Brighton who were a level below Notts at the time.

[1955pie]

If they fail to get promoted I will mock like I have always mock their failures, like it or not we are in direct competition for fans & the more success they have the harder it becomes for us. The gap is now as wide has it's ever been but forest being in the Prem would take it to a new level, a level where it would be very strange if they were to loan any players apart from very raw trialists to us. Our gates have begun to lift at last but if the worst case scenario was to happen it could easily put a block on that, for a young kid it has to be difficult enough to support Notts when most of your classmates go across the river but with the coverage & money involved with the Prem the temptation to go glory hunting could prove to much, the local media already fawn over the reds to the extent that radio red had live commentary on an under 18 game last week & the redrag is now little more than a forest fanzine, can you imagine it, I'm afraid I can & I don't like it, I may be a begger but there's no way i will ever choose to hope that they do well. COYP

I agree with you 100% ancient. If we fail to go up and Forest do, the difference will be vast.
No player loans, no press coverage, much reduced radio cover, very few new young fans, declining income and momentum.
As I see it, Forest are the Championship form team. Wrexham / Solihull are the National League form teams.
So it is not looking good.
Lets hope I'm feeling much better tomorrow and even better on June 5th.
We can do it.