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Lets's see then...Originally Posted by Elite_Pie
My angle is that Government plays a part in shaping the society we live in... so when innocent players are being assaulted, jostled, taunted, intimidated just because they're wearing a different colour shirt, it's worth asking how things can get so bad.
And if you've had the same Government for 13 years what have been doing to affect things positively or negatively.
- the tone of debate in politics. The tories and their supporters sow division all the time, turning people against each other who otherwise have common interests. They eschew debate in favour of crude name-calling. AncientPie did well to mention Brexit. That whole culture war has set a tone of hatred and aggression that isn't easily extinguished in places like Burslem and Ilkeston
- recently we've had a lesson in impunity. A PM can break the law, and is taunting the whole country by just remaining in power. The example the people at the top set in general is appalling.
- What's the state of the Education system? Have the Tories driven good standards there? Are values of respect, fair play and community spirit fostered there?
- Or do people leave with low self-esteem? Just left to scramble up from the bottom of the heap, in an aggressive, ultra-competitive, dog-eat-dog country.
After 13 years, they need to be held to account for a whole host of things - our living standards, the state of the economy, our high streets, local services, health service, education system and in this case contributing to a climate of hate, division, name-calling, nothing matters, get away with what you can, and sod everybody else!!
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1964-1979, 11 out of 15 years with an actual socialist government and a referendum voting in favour of joining the European Union.
I must have been mistaken then in believing segregation and fencing was introduced during that period as a desperate measure to combat football hooliganism,
I guess they must have done it to prevent opposing fans from getting together in one big naked love-in which was distracting the players from the game.
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So referees and officials have only been abused for the past 13 years by supporters and players on the same pitch wearing a different coloured shirt?
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I agree. When I was a kid, teeenager and young adult society seemed generally good. It wasn't perfect, but it was mostly good. That all changed when Thatcher was elected. A society of 'haves and have nots' was created, she governed only for those who would vote for her and shat on those who wouldn't. She created the Jeremy Kyle generation, where if you are treated like dirt some will act accordingly. We have the same now. Make the rules for the masses, while the rich and privileged do whatever they want. Incredibly, we even have a 'Minister for levelling up'!!! The Tories have been in power for 13 years, isn't that enough time to ensure levelling up isn't needed? Labour have to take their share of the blame for providing such woeful opposition as do the electorate for putting their faith in a proven serial liar.
This doesn't explain pitch invasions, but it might explain why we're such a divided country.
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Not getting into the the who was in government debate. It's more about the social outlook in the 70s as per now it was negative. the violence followed that.
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Football hooliganism was building up to its peak before Thatcher. In fact it must have been building up under a Labour government. Were those the years the UK was the "poor man of Europe"? I was in the land of oz so I don't really know except the UK was considered a bit of a joke over there.
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24th February 1965 BBC1 broadcast the "The Football Fan"
Programme description "Is he a hooligan? or just an ordinary harmless fellow who goes beserk on Saturday?"
So the word hooligan was being associated with football that early.
The first real problems on a large scale began around 1968 with Leeds and Sunderland apparently, but it exploded in 1973/74 with Spurs banned from Europe at the end of that season and Newcastle having to replay an FA Cup Quarter final with Fword after a riot was deemed to have effected the result. Man Utd took it to another level in 1974/75.
Here's an image from February 1978.....
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I'll grant you the second one.
I think the others are debatable, especially the first one (it's definitely true but I don't think you can pin it on one side).
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This. Anyone comes on the pitch then that team loses the game 3 nil automatically and they are deducted 3 points as well from the next league campaign or current one if its during the season. That's the only way it'll stop, punish the clubs and the fans will stop the other fans from doing it.
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Won't happen and if it did, it'd be a near certainty that fans of rival clubs would be on the pitch to influence the outcome of the league table. With the amount of money at stake (Champions league places for example), I dare say somebody might even hire a group for that purpose with a very large amount of cash in a brown envelope changing hands.
You could do it only for a mass invasion rather than a small number, but where do you draw the line? What if loads come on and don't cause any trouble and then at another ground only a few come on but try to push over a player.
Fences would be the most depressing site imaginable and the pushback would be enormous. You could make a case that there's no chance of a repeat of Hillsborough but imagine having fences at Anfield, fans would be claiming (genuinely in some cases) that they're being triggered into a panic attack by the sight of them on TV, never mind being sat in front of one.
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