O/T Bending the knee farce

[Trickytreesreds]

Have we now seen the end of this virtue signalling event?
Seeing as BLM leaders have now been exposed, for the scam running con artists that they are?
If you gave money to this, be happy that you have brought some lovely properties for these poor hurt people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kni15wFRZrA

Signed, P.Gammon

[Andy_Faber]

Have we now seen the end of this virtue signalling event?
Seeing as BLM leaders have now been exposed, for the scam running con artists that they are?
If you gave money to this, be happy that you have brought some lovely properties for these poor hurt people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kni15wFRZrA

Signed, P.Gammon

I note that the england team were booed by Hungary's youth at the international fixture at the weekend. I can't speak for Magyar **** oiks as I don't know them, but I DO know some of those who've commented on the subject on social media. There are a number of threads ongoing on various forums, and of (a quick eyeball tot-up) 20,000 or so comments, I've so far seen maybe ten comments in favour of continuing to take the knee. Do we, collectively and individually, have an opinion, and if its different to the concensus, why?

Me? I never agreed with it under the banner it supported at the start, although I had/have no problem with a moment's reflection that 'We Should All Love One Another a Bit More'. But now, it just looks a bit ridiculous



i

[Trickytreesreds]

I note that the england team were booed by Hungary's youth at the international fixture at the weekend. I can't speak for Magyar **** oiks as I don't know them, but I DO know some of those who've commented on the subject on social media. There are a number of threads ongoing on various forums, and of (a quick eyeball tot-up) 20,000 or so comments, I've so far seen maybe ten comments in favour of continuing to take the knee. Do we, collectively and individually, have an opinion, and if its different to the concensus, why?

Me? I never agreed with it under the banner it supported at the start, although I had/have no problem with a moment's reflection that 'We Should All Love One Another a Bit More'. But now, it just looks a bit ridiculous



i

As I said Andy.
The message that folks wanted it to mean was never there from its founders.
It was rail roaded by far left anti capitalists from the off, with agendas, like bringing down capitalism/defunding the police/ fuelling anti white sentiments. All from the wrongful death of a drug addled career criminal, by US police.
There are laws already in place for this, that obviously needed a kick up the back side.
We already had the "kick it out" campaign, in football.
But the American stance was taken to the Nth degree with virtue signalling.

Since then, the irony has been that the anti capitalists, have used public donated money to fuel their lifestyles with salaries and properties.
Not bad for creating anarchy.

Its had its run, drop it.
Sport shouldn't be used for political gains anyway.

[ramAnag]

‘Sport shouldn’t be used for political gains anyway’.
So you don’t approve of the role played by sport in bringing down apartheid, standing up to Hitler or, to take the most obvious recent example, alienating Putin?

As regards the rest...so long as there are football fans elsewhere in Europe who routinely abuse black players or football fans in the UK who indulge in on line abuse of black footballers when they miss a penalty etc then there is a case for continuing to ‘take the knee’. Only those with a right wing agenda will be actually offended by the practice anyway.

Having said that there is a danger that it becomes less meaningful as it becomes more routine however overall it does more good than harm imo, so that makes eleven Andy.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'll make it 19991.... for so long as it gets routinely booed it probably does more harm than good, feeding the fires of tribalism between sets of fans. This will only create tension in the ground and, since I imagine chunks of the England fans haven't bought into the concept either (see Millwall), thus heighten risk of trouble at matches.

In practice it just chucks petrol on an already sparky environment.

This observation reflects more on the intellect of the average football fan (I've not heard booing at cricket or other sports venues where the knee or similar gestures happen).

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Sport shouldn’t be used for political gains anyway’.
So you don’t approve of the role played by sport in bringing down apartheid, standing up to Hitler or, to take the most obvious recent example, alienating Putin?

As regards the rest...so long as there are football fans elsewhere in Europe who routinely abuse black players or football fans in the UK who indulge in on line abuse of black footballers when they miss a penalty etc then there is a case for continuing to ‘take the knee’. Only those with a right wing agenda will be actually offended by the practice anyway.

Having said that there is a danger that it becomes less meaningful as it becomes more routine however overall it does more good than harm imo, so that makes eleven Andy.

All well and good, if people only see it the way you see it.
But as I've highlighted. BLM movement isn't just about what what you want it to mean.
It's a radical political movement, corrupt to the core and been rumbled for its hypocrisy with the money grabbing.
In the states, the place it started. The divisions there are now even greater as a result.

We have laws in this country/ an anti racism campaign in football anyway,
This obviously riles fans up, time to stop it.
Efforts would be better placed in schools if anywhere,
By the time it reaches the pitches, it's too late.

[MadAmster]

Let's look at DCFC in this. When it all started, the team took the knee, or more accurately, 10 of the 11 did. The 11th, a man of colour, chose to stand with a slightly raised clenched fist. Later he dropped the fist. Then the 11 lined up along the by-line in solidarity and, more recently, they stood in their starting positions. Actions spoken about by the squad and changed according to what the majority, possibly even all of them, thought of the "action".

Among those players making those decisions we had Curt, Nate, Festy, Rav, CKR, Malc, Lee??, Luke and Kornell in the squad on matchday. Those players of colour were, apparently, OK with the choice as the blurb put out on the club website said the original decision not to take the knee was unanimous.

Now, the knee taking was, initially, a protest against white oppression of people of colour. Not something elderly male Caucasians probably know much about and have certainly not experienced. It started in the USA with Kapernick. It cost him his career. Why? Because the NFL and, more importantly, the majority of its sponsors are male Caucasian. They didn't like the politics that the gesture brought with it. Taking that into account, is our opinion on it valid or even a reasonable thing to have? A lot will be able to sympathise with the hideous position people of colour are in with regard to discrimination, some will be able to even empathise. None of us really understand what it's about.

Did any of our parents have to have "the talk" with us on how to "cow-tow" to the police when (not if) they stop you for no apparent reason? Did any of us have to have that talk with our own children? If the answer to both questions is no, then, IMO, we have no real right to an opinion on it as we do not understand the subject in question.

Despite what I wrote in the previous paragraph, I will offer an opinion and explain why I am of that opinion. I think the protest/gesture has run its course and has become a sideshow. Almost half of our matchday squad are men of colour and they seem to be of the opinion that it's lost any power it had. I'm with them because they know what it's all about and I'm pretty sure all of them will have been stopped at some point in their lives because they are men of colour. We are fortunate that this hideous treatment of men of colour isn't anywhere near as bad in the UK as it is in the USA but it's still nowhere near what it should be and that is on a footing with how Caucasians are treated.

Racism is still rife everywhere. Dutch police are pretty even handed although there are the odd bad eggs in there. The real problems lie in organisations like our tax authority where, although there are no rules or Laws or even instructions to be harsher on people of colour, a practice of labelling them as possible fraudsters just crept in. Once so labelled in their system, you were treated to the full works every year with your tax returns. The label filtered through into all manner of places. It affected credit ratings making loans nigh on impossible to get causing hardship to many families. It's now been recognised and is being rectified but it will take time. What were the signals that triggered the taxman? Double nationality, your name and, in some cases where there had been personal contact, even what you look like.

In short, there needs to be some kind of expression of how wrong racism is but, following the lead of Derby's players of colour, also not forgetting Liam Rosenior, the knee has outlived its usefulness IMO.

[ramAnag]

This observation reflects more on the intellect of the average football fan (I've not heard booing at cricket or other sports venues where the knee or similar gestures happen).

Fascinating observation, GP. I’m not sure that there is such a thing as an ‘average football fan’...however why such booing should be confined to (I’d suggest a small minority of) football fans is a good question.
I suppose the issue has always been football related as, going back fifty years or so, the moronic throwing of bananas never extended to cricket and rugby crowds.

[Trickytreesreds]

Enough said-

So according to the BLM, gofundme page, they want-
1. abolish capitalism
2. abolish the police
3. end to western values
How the foooook is that gonna work then?
Move to China?

[Andy_Faber]

‘Sport shouldn’t be used for political gains anyway’.
So you don’t approve of the role played by sport in bringing down apartheid, standing up to Hitler or, to take the most obvious recent example, alienating Putin?

As regards the rest...so long as there are football fans elsewhere in Europe who routinely abuse black players or football fans in the UK who indulge in on line abuse of black footballers when they miss a penalty etc then there is a case for continuing to ‘take the knee’. Only those with a right wing agenda will be actually offended by the practice anyway.

Having said that there is a danger that it becomes less meaningful as it becomes more routine however overall it does more good than harm imo, so that makes eleven Andy.

To your credit your line of reasoning is more powerful than most of those defending the knee elsewhere. I did come across a facebook page where there were more supporters, many capable of reasoned arguments, but there are too many who respond to well-thought-through arguments against it with nothing more than 'racist!!!!', similar in fact to one our own more extreme posters.

MA puts it well, that its run its course and become a sideshow, but its initial alignment with what was/is clearly a political movement (sorry but TTR's observations regarding BLM's stated objectives are broadly correct) meant it was never likely to change many hearts or minds.

My contention (as with most things) is not the laudible aim but the attempt by 'those who know best' to indoctrinate/brainwash 'those who know less well'