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Thread: Gotta laugh

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    17,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    A scheme to do both what the 1893 Foundation does and to raise money to buy back Dens was rejected out of hand by John Nelms. Had he accepted the fans (Dee4L) he would have still had his free money and the fans would have been sitting on nearly enough cash to achieve that target by now assuming the projections had come to fruition. The initial buy into the 1893vfoundation suggests this would have happened.

    The reason, in my opinion, that the scheme was rejected was that John Nelms would not have had full control of the income and could never have taken full control of the scheme. He believes that any spare cash any Dundee fan has to spend on football should go directly into club funds for his use without question or challenge.

    The reasons I personally never bought into the 1893 Foundation are that, although set up by fans with good intentions, it's absolutely what John Nelms wanted and was always likely to be grabbed by him; I also believe it simply pays his wages. The money Dundee fans have given to Nelms without question or knowledge of how it would be used, in return for a cheap badge and scarf, could have been much better used by a Dens buy back fund.
    Must admit I liked the simplicity of the scheme but after 8 mths I thought wtf am I doing giving Nelms a tenner a mth.....think the taking of the knee tipped me over the edge (I know unconnected) and I just stopped.

    I wouldn't say I was a fanatical fan but I have went from giving hundreds of pounds possibly 4 figs to Dee through admin and functions, season tic holder for 3 decades or so, 50% of away games, annoying the **** out of dabs at every opportunity to unable to hand over a tenner a month for the cause, non season ticket holder and no to fussed if a dabs within 6 foot of me.

    I blame the yanks for this turnaround.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    17,242
    Quote Originally Posted by deecom View Post
    my sentiments are similar to RROS, project is getting larger and DUNDEE FC dont seem to be a priority.
    i do not trust the yanks, i remember at the Gardyne meeting, the majority were asking , what do the yanks get out off it , now we know.
    They have renaged on buying back Dens Park, and with the amount of money wasted by the yanks, this could have been achieved years ago.
    Its been one forward and two back all the time they have been there, now we are relegated again, and we are expected to renew our season tickets at the same price to watchthe likes of Cove rangers and Hamilton, whilst Dens is crumbling,
    ffs they cant even keep the seats clean!
    No communication, broken promises and treating fans with contempt ( was gonna moderate that word but they have treated fans with contempt) just means distrust, cynacism and then eventually loss of interest.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    17,242
    Always go back to what Deeranged and a few others who have been involved with Nelms have consistently said.....not to be trusted, won't listen, aloof, surrounds himself with yes men.......yet seems to have complete trust from a certain section of our support 🙄

    Am I the only one who now avoids driving past Dens at all costs?

    It's never been immaculate in all my time but **** me people who let the ground get in that state are supposed to be allowed free reign and total trust.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    4,621
    Quote Originally Posted by Returnofrros View Post
    Always go back to what Deeranged and a few others who have been involved with Nelms have consistently said.....not to be trusted, won't listen, aloof, surrounds himself with yes men.......yet seems to have complete trust from a certain section of our support 🙄

    Am I the only one who now avoids driving past Dens at all costs?

    It's never been immaculate in all my time but **** me people who let the ground get in that state are supposed to be allowed free reign and total trust.
    Would like to see Dee4Life and DSA and OLG trying to raise some money. It looks as though funding will be coming from sources other than FPS. Why should supporters be excluded as a possible source of funds. As Deeranged has pointed out if Dee4Life had started a Buy Back Dens Fund when FPS took over there could be a chunk of money possibly enough to pay for the purchase of Dens.

    I know there are some of our fans who say that Dens is finished but I don't understand why paying a rent for a property that you could own is such a good idea, especially if there is an intrinsic value in the site.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,383
    Quote Originally Posted by BCram View Post
    Would like to see Dee4Life and DSA and OLG trying to raise some money. It looks as though funding will be coming from sources other than FPS. Why should supporters be excluded as a possible source of funds. As Deeranged has pointed out if Dee4Life had started a Buy Back Dens Fund when FPS took over there could be a chunk of money possibly enough to pay for the purchase of Dens.

    I know there are some of our fans who say that Dens is finished but I don't understand why paying a rent for a property that you could own is such a good idea, especially if there is an intrinsic value in the site.
    Sadly the Dundee supporters including myself believed Nelms and Keyes when they stated after acquiring a majority shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited that they would buy back Dens Park with the supporters fund raising to pay them back.
    Sadly once the Yanks got their feet under the table they moved the goalposts. They were not interested in buying back Dens Park, nor did they want a fans buy back of Dens Park from Sandeman Properties Limited as they wanted Dundee supporters to put their spare money into Dundee FC.
    Back in 2014 there was no requirement for the annual rent and the total rent payable to be stated in Companies annual accounts.
    However that changed in June 2016 with the introduction of the new FRS 102 rules which stated that annual rental and the outstanding rental until the end of a lease had to be shown in a companies annual accounts.
    This meant that the Directors of Dundee Football Club Limited had to state in their annual accounts how much rent they had paid in rent to Sandeman Properties Limited annually plus the total amount of outstanding rent until the end of the lease.
    At a stroke this information is no longer hidden from view and it has been discussed at length in the various Dundee FC supporters forum.
    Sadly there has been silence from John Nelms about the annual escalating rental paid by the club to Sandeman Properties Limited.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    6,383
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeranged View Post
    A scheme to do both what the 1893 Foundation does and to raise money to buy back Dens was rejected out of hand by John Nelms. Had he accepted the fans (Dee4L) he would have still had his free money and the fans would have been sitting on nearly enough cash to achieve that target by now assuming the projections had come to fruition. The initial buy into the 1893vfoundation suggests this would have happened.

    The reason, in my opinion, that the scheme was rejected was that John Nelms would not have had full control of the income and could never have taken full control of the scheme. He believes that any spare cash any Dundee fan has to spend on football should go directly into club funds for his use without question or challenge.

    The reasons I personally never bought into the 1893 Foundation are that, although set up by fans with good intentions, it's absolutely what John Nelms wanted and was always likely to be grabbed by him; I also believe it simply pays his wages. The money Dundee fans have given to Nelms without question or knowledge of how it would be used, in return for a cheap badge and scarf, could have been much better used by a Dens buy back fund.
    I enclose the minutes of the Dee4Life board of directors meeting held on 9th July 2020 with Item 2 Secretary’s Report being of particular interest. https://www.dee4life.com/files/15986...te09.07.20.pdf
    You will read that the original plan for the 1893 Foundation was for it to be called Dundee FC Foundation operating the fund through the GoCardless account linked to a standalone page on the Dee4Life Trust website.
    The minutes further state that agreement was being sought from the club which did not happen.
    John Nelms kept the scheme for the club, it was renamed the 1893 Foundation and the club used the GoCardless scheme which the Dee4Life Trust had been using for members paying their annual membership fee since November 2017.

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