Rip off price of petrol and diesel

[grantzer]

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Hi Deeranged. I have highlighted the bit that worries me the most. People think that voting Green is somehow a neutral vote. It isn't easily defined as either Hard Left or Hard Right so people tick the box because they have more than one vote at Scottish Elections and since they can't vote for an obviously different political philosophy they just vote Green.

I accept that there are bits of what the Greens are trying to do that make sense, but the timescales and the costs of what they want to do seem to me to be hopelessly impractical. Having said that the pressure that they have exerted has forced th motor trade to change course.

Had an interesting talk at Rotary this week. journalist drove from Dundee to The Alps in a Tesla 3 4WD for a 2 week extended holiday and road test. 300 mile range but because it was a Tesla with the very high charging power the usual stop to top up took about 30 minutes. you can't use the car's top speed because of the speed limits and the general volume of traffic so about 240 miles , 4hours of driving was easily long enough before you wanted to get out and stretch your legs and stuff.

Tesal technology knew where the high speed Tesla power points were, if they were available etc and once you got accustomed to the discipline of plannoing exactly where you were going to refuel there seemed very little problem with driving an electric car. Irt was a skiing holiday so lights, heater and stuff was in use. It did restrict the range from about 300 miles to about 240miles.

Trouble was car cost £60k plus. Nissan Leaf with a charging speed of 1/3rd of the Tesla cost about £30k. The charging speed makes an enormous difference, half an hour compared with an hour and a half per stop.

What puzzles me is why the Greens think it is great to be Green and drive an electric car just now when there is a major carrot for doing so iehow cheap it is to run compared with an ICE car. Even they must know that "free or very low cost electricity" is absolutely not going to continue and it seems to me that we IN BRITAIN are being forced to adopt an energy policy that will make everything very expensive and drive industry and jobs out of of country and make everyone so poor. Shared misery isn't a prospect that should get any votes at all, imo.

Most drivers on long journeys in an EV would not be charging to 100% charge,the charger slows down at about 80% and that takes about an hour. Some will be faster,some slower. An hour is about right to get a coffee,use toilets and stretch your legs.

Even now it is estimated that most electric cars are about half as expensive to run as petrol,and that is with a combination of public/home charging.

Infrastructure is probably the biggest problem,not enough chargers, and a combination of poorly thought out locations and petrol cars parked in EV only spaces can make long journeys exasperating. The costofan EV is mitigated slightly by the higher spec,and lower maintenance costs,but mostly by the savings on fuel. I wouldn't recommend one to anyone doing less than around 20k miles a year though,as those savings will take a long time to negate the extra cost of the car,although they are getting a bit cheaper now compared to petrol/diesel versions

[BCram]

Most drivers on long journeys in an EV would not be charging to 100% charge,the charger slows down at about 80% and that takes about an hour. Some will be faster,some slower. An hour is about right to get a coffee,use toilets and stretch your legs.

Even now it is estimated that most electric cars are about half as expensive to run as petrol,and that is with a combination of public/home charging.

Infrastructure is probably the biggest problem,not enough chargers, and a combination of poorly thought out locations and petrol cars parked in EV only spaces can make long journeys exasperating. The costofan EV is mitigated slightly by the higher spec,and lower maintenance costs,but mostly by the savings on fuel. I wouldn't recommend one to anyone doing less than around 20k miles a year though,as those savings will take a long time to negate the extra cost of the car,although they are getting a bit cheaper now compared to petrol/diesel versions

Interesting that you think break even is about 20k miles a year. Most finance deals I have seen make the payments based on about 10k per year. Does the 20k payback mileage include the extra cost of mileage over 10k.
Genuinely interested. Will be replacing a petrol car in next few months and think it might be worthwhile delaying any decision to buy an EV for another 3 years. Any comments?

[Deeranged]

Interesting that you think break even is about 20k miles a year. Most finance deals I have seen make the payments based on about 10k per year. Does the 20k payback mileage include the extra cost of mileage over 10k.
Genuinely interested. Will be replacing a petrol car in next few months and think it might be worthwhile delaying any decision to buy an EV for another 3 years. Any comments?

When I retire, still a bit off, I'll probably go EV because most of my driving will be local around town and charging won't be an issue. However I also intend having a diesel vehicle for any longer journeys that might come up. I won't be any better off therefore getting an EV in fact It'll force me to get a second car at all the additional costs that will accrue.

When I go on a longer journey my typical stop is 15 minutes to get to a toilet and possibly get a cup of coffee, even the 30 minutes charge time of the Tesla would be an age to me. I'm not the most patient.

[grantzer]

Interesting that you think break even is about 20k miles a year. Most finance deals I have seen make the payments based on about 10k per year. Does the 20k payback mileage include the extra cost of mileage over 10k.
Genuinely interested. Will be replacing a petrol car in next few months and think it might be worthwhile delaying any decision to buy an EV for another 3 years. Any comments?

The 20k would be buying the car. You could probably reduce the cost buying second hand in a normal second hand market, and there are a few places where you can charge for free. With petrol prices rising like they are,that 20k might come down a bit. The free chargers tend to be much slower like 6 hours+ to charge. Better to go with a car with more range,so you charge less often. With a home charger,and the right tariff,I would say electric is probably around 70% cheaper,and of course,no road tax and less maintenance.

20k miles would probably pay for itself in around 5 years at current cost, but again that depends on driving style,if you Nigel Mansel it,it is not so efficient.

I would probably go petrol and look to change if your mileage is less than 20k,more than 30k,I would go electric. Between the two would be a toss up.

Performance wise,I would go electric, although possibly second hand. A lot of people buy them,then change their minds for some reason,so you can make real savings on nearly new.

And you do get pretty high spec on electric cars. I would not recommend a Tesla though....

[grantzer]

When I retire, still a bit off, I'll probably go EV because most of my driving will be local around town and charging won't be an issue. However I also intend having a diesel vehicle for any longer journeys that might come up. I won't be any better off therefore getting an EV in fact It'll force me to get a second car at all the additional costs that will accrue.

When I go on a longer journey my typical stop is 15 minutes to get to a toilet and possibly get a cup of coffee, even the 30 minutes charge time of the Tesla would be an age to me. I'm not the most patient.

By that time,the range on electric cars will have gone up. Some already do over 300 miles on a charge,and I would expect that to go to 500 in the next few years

[Deeranged]

By that time,the range on electric cars will have gone up. Some already do over 300 miles on a charge,and I would expect that to go to 500 in the next few years

I'm sure the technology will improve but as the capacity of the battery goes up so will the charge time. Until the two become reasonable EVs will not be practical to very many people.

I'm all for hybrids but a mate of mine has one and it burns more fuel than mine. I get more MPG from a 1.5 Diesel than he gets from his hybrid.

[grantzer]

I'm sure the technology will improve but as the capacity of the battery goes up so will the charge time. Until the two become reasonable EVs will not be practical to very many people.

I'm all for hybrids but a mate of mine has one and it burns more fuel than mine. I get more MPG from a 1.5 Diesel than he gets from his hybrid.

If the range is 500 miles,you can pretty much drive to Brighton on one charge. You won't be doing that to turn round and come back....

I was gonna say you could go to Islay and back on one charge,but you won't get on the ferry apparently......

[BCram]

If the range is 500 miles,you can pretty much drive to Brighton on one charge. You won't be doing that to turn round and come back....

I was gonna say you could go to Islay and back on one charge,but you won't get on the ferry apparently......

Quality Banter, now that is funny!

[Deeranged]

If the range is 500 miles,you can pretty much drive to Brighton on one charge. You won't be doing that to turn round and come back....

I was gonna say you could go to Islay and back on one charge,but you won't get on the ferry apparently......

Quality Banter, now that is funny!

I laughed out loud