Marc roca

[whitestomper45]

There are 34 games in a Bundesliga season, and Roca has appeared in 15 in total over the last two seasons. You can't "shadow" anyone with that kind of irregular record, and even if he could, the fact he only appeared at club level in the Bundesliga 9 times last season would suggest he isn't regarded as good enough for the first team. Why would we consider he is good enough for OUR first team, given the disparity of co-efficients between the leagues (England 1st, Germany 4th, with a nearly 25% disparity between the two) which you referred to recently? Only smarties have the answer (and they all occupy the Exec offices at ER (apparently)).

We're not going to be buying regular first teamers from the top teams in the top leagues, (well not on the budget I imagine we have currently and the fact we are at the stage where we are trying to stay out of a relegation battle.) It would be similar to buying the guy (if there was one) that shadows Harry Kane, he might be good but he has limited opportunity due to the quality of the player ahead of him. If he signs, I will wait till he performs before deciding how good he is.

[WTF11]

We're not going to be buying regular first teamers from the top teams in the top leagues, (well not on the budget I imagine we have currently and the fact we are at the stage where we are trying to stay out of a relegation battle.) It would be similar to buying the guy (if there was one) that shadows Harry Kane, he might be good but he has limited opportunity due to the quality of the player ahead of him. If he signs, I will wait till he performs before deciding how good he is.

Agree entirely that we're unlikely to be picking the pockets of "senior" players from the "big six" in any league. We need to spend wisely, not profligately. All the more reason why Roca isn't right. We've failed more often than we've succeeded in acquiring talented additions to the 1st team squad, I fear we are repeating the mistakes of the past (many of which I have called out before the player kicked a ball for LUFC and I'm no footballing expert (as many have delighted in pointing out)).

[whitestomper45]

Agree entirely that we're unlikely to be picking the pockets of "senior" players from the "big six" in any league. We need to spend wisely, not profligately. All the more reason why Roca isn't right. We've failed more often than we've succeeded in acquiring talented additions to the 1st team squad, I fear we are repeating the mistakes of the past (many of which I have called out before the player kicked a ball for LUFC and I'm no footballing expert (as many have delighted in pointing out)).

Unless your at the top table prepared and able to attract the best players with big monies... then we are in the world where the majority of transfers are not a great success, look at any team outside the top 8 (Tho even some of those are big disasters) and its rarely a big success so by default saying they are not good signings you will be more right than wrong.

[WTF11]

Unless your at the top table prepared and able to attract the best players with big monies... then we are in the world where the majority of transfers are not a great success, look at any team outside the top 8 (Tho even some of those are big disasters) and its rarely a big success so by default saying they are not good signings you will be more right than wrong.

Which makes it all the more v i t a l that we spend wisely, for players who will strengthen the squad or act as replacements for players likely to leave. Roca is neither.

Just to show I'm not completely biased against newcomers, take another example of a player we have been linked with, Minamino. He plays in a position we need to strengthen, he can't get regular game time at Anfield (given their squad, hardly surprising), but his record when he does play is impressive. Just in domestic (PL) competition, he scored on 3 occasions having played a total of 176 minutes in the season, so less than 2 full games (spread over 11 games as both starter and sub). In the season as a whole, he played in 24 matches, across PL, FA & League Cups and Champions League, for a total of just over 1000 minutes, (the equivalent of 11 full matches), the vast majority against top class competition, and scored 10 goals, so around a goal a "full" match. Would that we had a striker that could equal that rate!

He was also at Salzburg, so presumably has some knowledge of our other newcomers from that area.

His price tag is supposedly around 17m euros, so around the £14m we are rumoured to be paying for Roca. If as you say, and I'm not disagreeing, we have to gamble a little when acquiring new players, I'd put my money on red, not black.

[Billyni]

Perhaps marc roca didn't get gametime (given the bayern squad).
Only saying like.

[WTF11]

Perhaps marc roca didn't get gametime (given the bayern squad).
Only saying like.

Maybe so, but for a team playing in a league which is inferior to the PL, and playing in a position (when he plays) where have plentiful cover already. And we pay £14m for this? Why?

[cherrypie7]

Which makes it all the more v i t a l that we spend wisely, for players who will strengthen the squad or act as replacements for players likely to leave. Roca is neither.

In a much earlier post on another thread, I believe you mentioned that we should try to get Tarkowski from Burnley. He plays centre back where we already have Cooper, struijk, Llorente, Koch, cresswell and Hjelde. So, I dont see Tarkowski strengthening anything. Roca can strengthen defensive midfield where we have Phillips and I am not sure exactly who. As I mentioned earlier, Marsch likes to play 2 defensive midfielders. So Roca could be useful. Also, on the bright side, he is lightly played so will be eager and injury free.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Just playing that many times for Bayern suggests he isn’t a mug but if he was a stellar player for them then he wouldn’t be leaving and certainly not for 15m.

As has been said before time will tell.

Even if he ends up being a squad player it adds depth to an area where we are weak.

[Tichi1]

Just playing that many times for Bayern suggests he isn’t a mug but if he was a stellar player for them then he wouldn’t be leaving and certainly not for 15m.

As has been said before time will tell.

Even if he ends up being a squad player it adds depth to an area where we are weak.

Try getting any fringe players from Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid et al and because they are fringe players they are likely to have not had a huge amount of game time, Getting minutes if you have the best in the world in front of you is always going to be a big ask, and for me seems to be a way of getting [In general] good value for money, anyone on the fringes of any of those teams are no mugs as City etc don't just buy in mugs to have on their fringes.

For me it seems to be a sensible way of spending what budget we have, bringing in the guys we have so far, plus giving more game time to Gelhardt, Cresswell, Helde etc to suplement this.

So far looks so good to me - though I still believe they are in to REPLACE Philips and Raphina - not supplement them,

[Tichi1]

Maybe so, but for a team playing in a league which is inferior to the PL, and playing in a position (when he plays) where have plentiful cover already. And we pay £14m for this? Why?

He's coming in to replace Philips IMO we then have only Roca and Forshaw... no one else is actually a DM as far as I can work out - so we will need another is we are to strengthen the squad - only my opinion like. So Iwill wait to see how good he is before commenting on his value or otherwise.
WTF as usual shoots from the lip as soon as we get someone - anyone - based on games played and stats from previous outings for different clubs, preffering to tell us all "I told you so" occasionlly rather that ACTUALLY watch a player play for us BEFORE giving us all the benefit of his abounding football knowledge.

Leopard/spots......