Oh the irony

[the_anticlough]

Whether it was Ian Burchnall or Football Radar who didn't previously recognise the need for a big, aggressive, physically dominant midfielder, I'm looking for our summer recruitment to show we've recognised it now. In fact, we need two midfield signings of that type, either to play together or cover for each other in that respect.

Matt Palmer proved himself to be a fine midfielder and Jim O'Brien will always give us everything he's got, but overall there was a glaring weakness in our midfield last season in terms of athleticism, physicality and height, particularly when it came to defending and winning battles. If we don't address that problem, we won't be any better than last season, it's as simple as that.

I'll have to be the one to question this.

'big, aggressive, physically dominant midfielder' is an incomplete job description in a ball-playing, possession-based side.
When you have an approach like ours, you've got to be able to play first - or the whole thing will break down as one of your players can't contribute in that regard. Yes, we need energy and ball-winning skills but we shouldn't be grafting a player from a different philosophy and playing-style onto our team like a foreign body. First and foremost, he has to fit the style.
If you're calling for a different approach entirely, then that's a whole different conversation.

We look like we're heading for another season of trying to make 'wing-backs' work. The players we have there, including Adebayo, come at this from being full-backs. Who is Matty Palmer? A player who does his best work deep. Has scored 10 career goals in 10 years. Rarely runs ahead of the play to get into advanced positions. He IS our DEFENSIVE midfielder. So him, the goalkeeper, 5 defenders makes 7 out of 11 players. How can we be asking for a defensive midfielder to make a block of 8 basically? We're supposed to be attacking this league (with defenders you can trust to defend) not staving off relegation or scrapping for mid-table position.

I'd say we need an energetic, box-to-box midfielder for the first team. One that can win the ball in our half and join the attack in the other, while leaving the bulk of the build-up play to Matt Palmer. Vincent isn't quite that player, we need stronger and more consistent but he's got to fit into the style of play or that's compromised and we've got nothing then, just a car that doesn't go at all.

[laddo]

Interesting post but it instantly raises a couple of questions. Does Palmer as a DEFENSIVE midfielder stick his foot in enough, tackle well enough?
Also last season with not so defensive wing backs we scored loads of goals last season and were often called far from clinical so created lots as well. Attacking , creating and scoring with 7 DEFENSIVE players wasn't an issue

[Rez1862]

I don't see Palmer as a defensive midfielder by any stretch of the imagination. He lies deep, but in my book he should be the player the ball winning midfield gives the ball to immediately.

[the_anticlough]

I'm glad the two you went there.
Palmer may be the darling of the 'it's about time I liked one of our midfielders' brigade, but he actually presents us with a problem, being the way he is when we're still wedded to a back 5

My view is that you can't have everything in a player and it's the club's job to put the right player(s) next to him. But that can't be a purely, or primarily, defensive player...with 5 at the back already, you'd be handing the initiative to the opposition and giving Ruben and Cal an impossible task. They'd soon be asking out if all scoring and creation is left to them. They're creative players anyway and need to have that midfield runner to hit ahead of them.

[the_anticlough]

Interesting post but it instantly raises a couple of questions. Does Palmer as a DEFENSIVE midfielder stick his foot in enough, tackle well enough?
Also last season with not so defensive wing backs we scored loads of goals last season and were often called far from clinical so created lots as well. Attacking , creating and scoring with 7 DEFENSIVE players wasn't an issue

Well, all of the top 3 scored more goals than us.
We'd be lucky to find a RWB who causes as much chaos as Richardson
Team selection last season was more than just plonking Francis next to Palmer. There was a whole period where we had Vincent and Roberts playing just ahead of Palmer in a midfield 3. So we mainly didn't play a defensive block of 8, and we shouldn't start doing that now. But Palmer is a defensive midfielder, I don't think there's any getting around that.

[macse15]

Well, all of the top 3 scored more goals than us.
We'd be lucky to find a RWB who causes as much chaos as Richardson
Team selection last season was more than just plonking Francis next to Palmer. There was a whole period where we had Vincent and Roberts playing just ahead of Palmer in a midfield 3. So we mainly didn't play a defensive block of 8, and we shouldn't start doing that now. But Palmer is a defensive midfielder, I don't think there's any getting around that.

How do we know IB chose/ had much say in this signing? Maybe he has the same input as he did with us and is putting a positive spin on it? Just a thought

[laddo]

Well, all of the top 3 scored more goals than us.
We'd be lucky to find a RWB who causes as much chaos as Richardson
Team selection last season was more than just plonking Francis next to Palmer. There was a whole period where we had Vincent and Roberts playing just ahead of Palmer in a midfield 3. So we mainly didn't play a defensive block of 8, and we shouldn't start doing that now. But Palmer is a defensive midfielder, I don't think there's any getting around that.

They did but that doesn't mean goalscoring was an issue. It clearly wasn't. We don't need to score more we need to concede less as the table showed.

He's a deep lying midfielder but he's not defensive midfielder like Stefan Oakes was. Defensive midfielders very rarely have his vision and passing ability. He doesn't tackle well enough or is strong enough to be a traditional defensive midfielder IMO.

[durhampie]

They did but that doesn't mean goalscoring was an issue. It clearly wasn't. We don't need to score more we need to concede less as the table showed.

He's a deep lying midfielder but he's not defensive midfielder like Stefan Oakes was. Defensive midfielders very rarely have his vision and passing ability. He doesn't tackle well enough or is strong enough to be a traditional defensive midfielder IMO.

Now there was a player, every goal he scored was a cracker and from outside the box...

[nw6pie]

I was at Yeovil when Oakes scored his wonder goal from just inside the halfway line - happy days. I never remember him being much of a fan favourite, though, with accusations of showboating and laziness being bandied about.

If we're talking the type of ex-midfielder we'd like to see back, I'd love an Andy Hughes-sort - not the most skillful, for sure, but a great box-to-box player who weighed in with a few goals. Can't believe I'm writing this, but Liam Noble was also a good box-to-box player during his first spell - whenever he managed to stay on the pitch, anyway.

The sad truth is that we've suffered an awful lot of poor midfielders over the past 20 years, with the emphasis on awful.

[laddo]

He could strike a ball for sure, very cultured. I remember the goal away at Wycombe which was another beauty. He played deep in the quarterback role in front of the back 4 but wasn't a defensive midfielder, like Palmer isn't. Why? He couldn't tackle, didn't put his foot in, wasn't strong defensively.

He was far from a fan favourite. Give me an Andy Hughes now anyday. That's what we need.