Bielsas Back

[Dalek_Sec]

Stepping into the Marcelo Bielsa dabate with trepidation...

IMO He was an absolute revelation for Leeds at the time - a world class manager who took ordinary players and developed them into far, far better players than they were before his arrival ( I would go so far as to say if you asked any LUFC player how they valued his input for their personal development, you would get a very consistent and positive answer).
The injury scenario clearly undermined his philosophy for team development and league position. But I believe he had a longer term plan, and we would have seen the results in 2 or 3 seasons with youth development and younger player introductions at the right time for the player development (pointedly not the club, in the short term). But, with the absoute aim being Premier League survival for 2021/22 (especially remembering investors/ownership interests) other priorities raised their heads, the lack of a plan B to scrabble for points and compromise football principles in extreme circumstances when playing the game plan was not possible I think worried the board when faced with the real prospect of relegation, and cost MB his job. The fans would have recognised the change in tactics, accepted the poorer final position and prepared for next year if an honest message had been signalled. What 2022/23 would have brought under Bielsa is now only for fantasy, for now we have Marsche - who came in and (don't forget) we survived relegation. I think we would have also survived relegation had MB stayed and the key players returned.
However, to me, there is a subtle change in new acquisitions policy. We appear to be buying or attempting to buy "slot in" players who are used to Marsche's playing system. That is understandable if survival is the main priority - and they are confident that it will work.
The underlying - and elephant in the room question - is " Can Jesse Marsche develop the players at the club to improve their game in the way that Marcelo Bielsa did?"
I cannot answer that - only Jesse Marsche can.
We have to give him the opportunity with the benefit of a transfer window for himself and a few months at the club to demonstrate his effectiveness. ( the failure to strengthen the squad in the Jan 2022 transfer window has to be recorded as an obvious error by the club).

But, one aspect of concern to me is the potential departure of core players, and some youth players, who were developed massively under the auspices of MB - are they leaving/wanting to leave because they cannot continue to develop as players under the current management?

Only time will tell - and those in the positions of responsibility have this chance to restore the fortunes of LUFC and show they are capable of delivering success.

MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Stepping into the Marcelo Bielsa dabate with trepidation...

IMO He was an absolute revelation for Leeds at the time - a world class manager who took ordinary players and developed them into far, far better players than they were before his arrival ( I would go so far as to say if you asked any LUFC player how they valued his input for their personal development, you would get a very consistent and positive answer).
The injury scenario clearly undermined his philosophy for team development and league position. But I believe he had a longer term plan, and we would have seen the results in 2 or 3 seasons with youth development and younger player introductions at the right time for the player development (pointedly not the club, in the short term). But, with the absoute aim being Premier League survival for 2021/22 (especially remembering investors/ownership interests) other priorities raised their heads, the lack of a plan B to scrabble for points and compromise football principles in extreme circumstances when playing the game plan was not possible I think worried the board when faced with the real prospect of relegation, and cost MB his job. The fans would have recognised the change in tactics, accepted the poorer final position and prepared for next year if an honest message had been signalled. What 2022/23 would have brought under Bielsa is now only for fantasy, for now we have Marsche - who came in and (don't forget) we survived relegation. I think we would have also survived relegation had MB stayed and the key players returned.
However, to me, there is a subtle change in new acquisitions policy. We appear to be buying or attempting to buy "slot in" players who are used to Marsche's playing system. That is understandable if survival is the main priority - and they are confident that it will work.
The underlying - and elephant in the room question - is " Can Jesse Marsche develop the players at the club to improve their game in the way that Marcelo Bielsa did?"
I cannot answer that - only Jesse Marsche can.
We have to give him the opportunity with the benefit of a transfer window for himself and a few months at the club to demonstrate his effectiveness. ( the failure to strengthen the squad in the Jan 2022 transfer window has to be recorded as an obvious error by the club).

But, one aspect of concern to me is the potential departure of core players, and some youth players, who were developed massively under the auspices of MB - are they leaving/wanting to leave because they cannot continue to develop as players under the current management?

Only time will tell - and those in the positions of responsibility have this chance to restore the fortunes of LUFC and show they are capable of delivering success.

MOT

All makes sense - I hope Marsch does well but my fear is that his tactics are too simplistic and will leave us exposed against certain teams - would be nice to be proved wrong.

[spaldy]

DS,

well written and accurate. Regarding player development. If we get 60+ million for KP that's almost all MB's doing. He's still a championship player (as is LUFC) if MB does not show up. Raph also likely never ends up on Brazil's national team and no way we get 60 million for him either. Dallas, Ayling, Bamford, Harrison and Klich never play in the prem (if you don't count Bamford's sporadic appearances).

We have Ted Lasso as our coach. Better than the stale retreads such as Big Sam, Pulis, Bruce etc but will be very painful over time. I guess the one thing we have as Leeds Fans is a acceptance that we are likley going to be outcoached. Frankly, as brilliant as MB was in player development and attacking he was often outcoached tactically in game situations. His stubborn streak made him vulnerable against prem level coaches.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

DS,

well written and accurate. Regarding player development. If we get 60+ million for KP that's almost all MB's doing. He's still a championship player (as is LUFC) if MB does not show up. Raph also likely never ends up on Brazil's national team and no way we get 60 million for him either. Dallas, Ayling, Bamford, Harrison and Klich never play in the prem (if you don't count Bamford's sporadic appearances).

We have Ted Lasso as our coach. Better than the stale retreads such as Big Sam, Pulis, Bruce etc but will be very painful over time. I guess the one thing we have as Leeds Fans is a acceptance that we are likley going to be outcoached. Frankly, as brilliant as MB was in player development and attacking he was often outcoached tactically in game situations. His stubborn streak made him vulnerable against prem level coaches.

Not sure he was out coached but agree he was stubborn. Think it was more he wasn’t supported enough in the transfer market with better players to compete.

There are limits to his ability to turn water into wine.

[spaldy]

You are correct. Probably should have been clearer.

The problem is that when stubborn takes over and you don't make adjustments out of dogged insistence to play your way it often looked the same as being outcoached. As players broke down and we didn't have the depth we just looked really bad at times with the wide open counterattacks. Losing to teams by 5 and 6 goals is really painful. However, when we are on we were really on. A true joy to watch.

I do really wonder what might have happened if we had had a pure poacher striker last season. Might have been a lot different mid year than what happened. we missed so many sitters in the first half of the season. I worry that it's "contagious" and might carry over this year.

[ozleeds]

The problem with MB was not injuries but not trusting the younger players to perform even when they did. Playing crap like Roberts over and over and others and playing players out of position when we had like for like replacements. All the talk about the youth system never eventuated perhaps too early but when your back is against the wall why not turn to them and have belief otherwise why bring them to the club. Yes, we had under-23s come in here and there but never stayed even after playing well.
Marsche came in at a very difficult time and got 4 wins I think in a short time which saved us. Who would have seen Greenwood be trusted to do a midfielder's job but he did and the kid was outstanding that final game. That showed guts for a pressure game. I know I first started the Ted Lasso thing as a Stir but I think this guy just might prove most of us wrong.

[joellufcprice]

Not sure he was out coached but agree he was stubborn. Think it was more he wasn’t supported enough in the transfer market with better players to compete.

There are limits to his ability to turn water into wine.

He always said he wanted better than what he had if we were going to sign someone, I don't think the board ever offered him that. Think he was stubborn and a bit naive in that respect but hell, guy also put us top 10 in the Premier league with a squad that i reckon some of our past managers would have struggled to win the Championship with (aside from Raphinha, who joined us later in the season)

Do hope one day we get to say goodbye to him properly on the pitch whether it be a friendly or something else, he deserves that

[wortleygirl]

He always said he wanted better than what he had if we were going to sign someone, I don't think the board ever offered him that. Think he was stubborn and a bit naive in that respect but hell, guy also put us top 10 in the Premier league with a squad that i reckon some of our past managers would have struggled to win the Championship with (aside from Raphinha, who joined us later in the season)

Do hope one day we get to say goodbye to him properly on the pitch whether it be a friendly or something else, he deserves that

Not only does Bielsa deserve a proper send off from the fans, the fans deserve to give Bielsa a proper send off.

We can only hope the Board etc take note of the fans feelings on this. After all without him LUFC would not only still be in The Championship, we would probably still be mid table Championship at best. We have had a wonderful 3 and a half years, something, I admit I never thought I would see again (don't forget I am an old biddy). Got to admit though, at times it wasn't very good for the old ticker.

[WTF11]

He always said he wanted better than what he had if we were going to sign someone, I don't think the board ever offered him that. Think he was stubborn and a bit naive in that respect but hell, guy also put us top 10 in the Premier league with a squad that i reckon some of our past managers would have struggled to win the Championship with (aside from Raphinha, who joined us later in the season)

Do hope one day we get to say goodbye to him properly on the pitch whether it be a friendly or something else, he deserves that

Tin hat on (as always, particularly on the subject of Bielsa) but how can anyone suggest that Casilla, JKA, Rodrigo are "better than what we had" and all were sanctioned by him, plus he persisted in playing Roberts who is NOT better than any of our alternatives, and presumably sanctioned (or played a part in sanctioning) the enhanced contracts for him and Costa followed by sending the latter out on loan with not a game played for LUFC after he was awarded the new contract.

I've said previously that he worked miracles with a middling Championship squad, but how much more could have been achieved if the board had been stronger and Bielsa less stubborn? Imho he would still be with us and we wouldn't have been fighting relegation

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Possibly but he was always clear in interviews in the prem that no point buying unless it improves the squad.

Seems like the board put an awful lot of faith in his ability to keep pulling rabbits out of the hat and invested in youth for the future rather than plugging gaps in the here and now.

Casilla played okay until the play off calamity and was probably good for Meslier’s progression.

JKA looked good on paper and was sort of forced on us by the Nketiah recall. Think they tried to get Che Adams but Soton said no. With the benefit of hindsight they were not great signings but at the time they seemed reasonable.

Roberts is an enigma - he was decent in the promotion season and scored some ***** goals. He always looks good in u23s but in the prem struggles - maybe it was the chopping and changing of roles or maybe he just lacks the inner belief that he belongs - who knows.