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Thread: The Rail Strike, Labour & Starmer.

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    12,084
    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    Arrogance isn’t a virtue, if you know you are and others point it out then you should do something about it.

    You remain clueless as to how I’ll vote, I haven’t made up my mind yet.

    I will consider Labour once they have a proper leader with a dynamic plan and they get rid of idiots like Rayner and her ilk.

    I don’t vote as all a bunch of c unts! What would be the point of voting anyway in my area when the Conservatives got 30,000 votes in the last election compared to 5,000 for Labour. So if you don’t like Tory you are f ucked as the area will always be Tory even if Boris had hosted a wine party here in lockdown completely naked apart from a bow tie 😭

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by WBA123 View Post
    As usual you've fallen into the Tory propaganda trap.

    Its obvious why he's not giving a position, because he'll get pelters from both sides if he does. So its a no win situation. The sensible position is the one he's taken, which is to ask both sides to get around the table and negotiate.

    Why is it important to you, when it won't make any difference to the situation or how you'll vote?
    I find this post quite staggering.

    Do you truly believe it's OK for the Leader of The Opposition 'not to give a position' on such a crucial issue affecting the UK? You then contradict yourself by stating he does have an position 'to get round the table and negotiate.' No sh1t! That is exactly the same position as The Govt, the rail companies, the RMT and next door's dog.

    Will it influence how I vote. Damn right it will. I have a massive fear that if Labour get in the unions will view it as their opportunity to take back control of how this country is run. Starmer's stance or lack of it reinforces that fear. And that is moderate Mr Starmer. What is sat behind him is truly scarey. Over the top? I've lived through it before in the 70's when Britain was known as 'The Sick Man of Europe'.

    Propaganda trap! Give me strength!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,150
    [/QUOTE]Do you truly believe it's OK for the Leader of The Opposition 'not to give a position' on such a crucial issue affecting the UK?
    [/QUOTE]

    When it serves no purpose to give a position then yes. He won't win whichever side he picks.

    [/QUOTE]You then contradict yourself by stating he does have an position 'to get round the table and negotiate.' [/QUOTE]

    Granted - I should have said pick a side, rather than a position originally.

    [/QUOTE]No sh1t! That is exactly the same position as The Govt, the rail companies, the RMT and next door's dog. [/QUOTE]

    I think you missed the point of my previous posts. That is not the intention of this Govt. If it was why haven't they even tried to sit down with RMT this week.

    [/QUOTE]Will it influence how I vote. Damn right it will. I have a massive fear that if Labour get in the unions will view it as their opportunity to take back control of how this country is run[/QUOTE]

    I thought you wanted us to 'take back control?'

    [/QUOTE] I've lived through it before in the 70's when Britain was known as 'The Sick Man of Europe'.[/QUOTE]

    Get used to it. We'll be the Sick Man of Europe again very shortly thanks the 'B' word

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,150
    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    Arrogance isn’t a virtue, if you know you are and others point it out then you should do something about it.

    You remain clueless as to how I’ll vote, I haven’t made up my mind yet.

    I will consider Labour once they have a proper leader with a dynamic plan and they get rid of idiots like Rayner and her ilk.
    Maybe we'll end up voting for the same party. Wouldn't that be ironic.

    I think they have got a proper leader, but they'll never get rid of the Far Left of the party. So that's the baggage that comes with it.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    23,883
    Quote Originally Posted by 9goals2hattricks3pen View Post
    I find this post quite staggering.

    Do you truly believe it's OK for the Leader of The Opposition 'not to give a position' on such a crucial issue affecting the UK? You then contradict yourself by stating he does have an position 'to get round the table and negotiate.' No sh1t! That is exactly the same position as The Govt, the rail companies, the RMT and next door's dog.

    Will it influence how I vote. Damn right it will. I have a massive fear that if Labour get in the unions will view it as their opportunity to take back control of how this country is run. Starmer's stance or lack of it reinforces that fear. And that is moderate Mr Starmer. What is sat behind him is truly scarey. Over the top? I've lived through it before in the 70's when Britain was known as 'The Sick Man of Europe'.

    Propaganda trap! Give me strength!
    Very well said 923.

    Last year 123 told us he was still in his 30’s and this actually tells us a lot.

    I couldn’t possibly offer an opinion of 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and most of 60’s Britain because I either wasn’t here or I was too young to know.

    A lot of us wax lyrical about the 60’s and 70’s but only from a childhood and cultural perspective........my parents view of the 60’s and 70’s was different to mine I guess.

    That 70’s period under Labour was hideous and as a young lad and then school leaver in 78 it was very bleak.

    I’m sure you’ll remember your school being closed due to not enough coal or oil for heating?

    Those weeks where we had power cuts on two or three days to conserve energy and living by candle light from 4pm through the winter with no electricity?

    If you didn’t have gas you got no heating or hot food!

    We used to “camp” in our bedrooms and use torches and we’d be in bed by 8.00pm as there was nothing else to do!

    No rubbish collections for a couple of months due to bin men being on strike, rats running a mock amongst streets piled high of household and business refuse.

    A shortage of basic foodstuffs and standing in queues for bread for hours on end each week!

    The country was bankrupt under Wilson/Callaghan and Chancellor Healey and being run by the likes of “Red Robbo” the Union leader along with ASLEF and the NUM with Scargill and all his cronies and the like.

    The reason this present version of Labour still struggle to gain traction is because of a weak and insipid leader, the spectre of Momentum and the union loonies hiding in plain site AND the collective memories of all of those still alive who were born within the last 100 years who lived through that period under Labour!

    There’s a reason that Labour absolutely walked three General Elections and that’s because Blair, despite all his faults in latter years and Kinnock prior to him both tackled the militants and the loonies head on and put them in a locked box for a generation.

    It impossible to have any clue what the 70’s was like unless you were 10+ and lived through it, it was very tough and very scary for our parents and grandparents.

    Things are very awkward at the moment but on a scale of 10 compared to the 70’s we haven’t yet reach 2 in my opinion.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    2,366
    [QUOTE=mickd1961;40064326]Very well said 923.

    Last year 123 told us he was still in his 30’s and this actually tells us a lot.

    I couldn’t possibly offer an opinion of 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and most of 60’s Britain because I either wasn’t here or I was too young to know.

    A lot of us wax lyrical about the 60’s and 70’s but only from a childhood and cultural perspective........my parents view of the 60’s and 70’s was different to mine I guess.

    That 70’s period under Labour was hideous and as a young lad and then school leaver in 78 it was very bleak.

    I’m sure you’ll remember your school being closed due to not enough coal or oil for heating?

    Those weeks where we had power cuts on two or three days to conserve energy and living by candle light from 4pm through the winter with no electricity?

    If you didn’t have gas you got no heating or hot food!

    We used to “camp” in our bedrooms and use torches and we’d be in bed by 8.00pm as there was nothing else to do!

    No rubbish collections for a couple of months due to bin men being on strike, rats running a mock amongst streets piled high of household and business refuse.

    A shortage of basic foodstuffs and standing in queues for bread for hours on end each week!

    The country was bankrupt under Wilson/Callaghan and Chancellor Healey and being run by the likes of “Red Robbo” the Union leader along with ASLEF and the NUM with Scargill and all his cronies and the like.

    The reason this present version of Labour still struggle to gain traction is because of a weak and insipid leader, the spectre of Momentum and the union loonies hiding in plain site AND the collective memories of all of those still alive who were born within the last 100 years who lived through that period under Labour!

    There’s a reason that Labour absolutely walked three General Elections and that’s because Blair, despite all his faults in latter years and Kinnock prior to him both tackled the militants and the loonies head on and put them in a locked box for a generation.

    It impossible to have any clue what the 70’s was like unless you were 10+ and lived through it, it was very tough and very scary for our parents and grandparents.

    Things are very awkward at the moment but on a scale of 10 compared to the 70’s we haven’t yet reach 2 in my opinion.[/QUOTE
    As someone of the same/similar age I can't but echo your sentiments Mick!

    I would, however, point out that much of the situation was due to an over reliance at the time on traditional heavy industries that were mismanaged, outmoded, unproductive and in decline. The over powerful big unions with their closed shop mentality certainly did not help but successive governments (both Tory and Labour ) also failed to address the issue and invest in new technology and businesses/industries to create new, alternative, employment. Whole communities in Wales, the Midlands and the North relied almost entirely on textiles, mining, steel production, ship building and the car industry. The NUM were wrong to demand that blatantly unproductive puts were kept open but then if they closed what other jobs were there for their members?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    2,366
    Ref the above, not sure why highlighted quote facility hasn't worked?

    Also like to add that Thatcher was right to smash the power of the big unions but it's just that her zeal took her too far IMHO. Many benefited from her incentives such as right to buy and tax breaks for new businesses in enterprise zones but, ultimately, the country paid a cost for too much deregulation with the greed of a few leading to financial crashes ( Blair and New Labour also played their part in enabling this). Her treatment of the miners and nurses, for example, also demonstrated a lack of empathy -if not downright callousness - and small wonder that she remains the country's most divisive prime minister.

  8. #28
    Do you truly believe it's OK for the Leader of The Opposition 'not to give a position' on such a crucial issue affecting the UK?
    [/QUOTE]

    When it serves no purpose to give a position then yes. He won't win whichever side he picks.

    [/QUOTE]You then contradict yourself by stating he does have an position 'to get round the table and negotiate.' [/QUOTE]

    Granted - I should have said pick a side, rather than a position originally.

    [/QUOTE]No sh1t! That is exactly the same position as The Govt, the rail companies, the RMT and next door's dog. [/QUOTE]

    I think you missed the point of my previous posts. That is not the intention of this Govt. If it was why haven't they even tried to sit down with RMT this week.

    [/QUOTE]Will it influence how I vote. Damn right it will. I have a massive fear that if Labour get in the unions will view it as their opportunity to take back control of how this country is run[/QUOTE]

    I thought you wanted us to 'take back control?'

    [/QUOTE] I've lived through it before in the 70's when Britain was known as 'The Sick Man of Europe'.[/QUOTE]

    Get used to it. We'll be the Sick Man of Europe again very shortly thanks the 'B' word[/QUOTE]

    Your comments on Starmer's stance (or lack of) get more unbelievable by the post. He can't make clear his position because if he does he will be criticised! What sort of leader leads in such a manner? You couldn't make it up. Unless of course you have such a warped view you can support anything as long as it is anti Tory.

    You seem to suggest by 'us' you mean the unions. The day the likes of Mick Lynch et al represent 'us' will be a sad day indeed.

    The B word you refer to I take to be the bollox you are posting that do neither you or your beliefs any credit whatsoever.

  9. #29
    I get the demand for a cost of living rise but I just can't get how the RMT can demand no redundancies and resist some basic sensible reforms of working practices. Just a couple of examples.

    A worker can refuse to share a van. Therefore as many vans as workers can turn up for a job.

    A whole crew has to attend a job even if the job doesn't warrant that many workers.

    The rail companies stance that cost savings from these outdated (did they ever make sense) could be used to increase pay makes every sense to me. Anyone differ?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    Very well said 923.

    Last year 123 told us he was still in his 30’s and this actually tells us a lot.

    I couldn’t possibly offer an opinion of 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and most of 60’s Britain because I either wasn’t here or I was too young to know.

    A lot of us wax lyrical about the 60’s and 70’s but only from a childhood and cultural perspective........my parents view of the 60’s and 70’s was different to mine I guess.

    That 70’s period under Labour was hideous and as a young lad and then school leaver in 78 it was very bleak.

    I’m sure you’ll remember your school being closed due to not enough coal or oil for heating?

    Those weeks where we had power cuts on two or three days to conserve energy and living by candle light from 4pm through the winter with no electricity?

    If you didn’t have gas you got no heating or hot food!

    We used to “camp” in our bedrooms and use torches and we’d be in bed by 8.00pm as there was nothing else to do!

    No rubbish collections for a couple of months due to bin men being on strike, rats running a mock amongst streets piled high of household and business refuse.

    A shortage of basic foodstuffs and standing in queues for bread for hours on end each week!

    The country was bankrupt under Wilson/Callaghan and Chancellor Healey and being run by the likes of “Red Robbo” the Union leader along with ASLEF and the NUM with Scargill and all his cronies and the like.

    The reason this present version of Labour still struggle to gain traction is because of a weak and insipid leader, the spectre of Momentum and the union loonies hiding in plain site AND the collective memories of all of those still alive who were born within the last 100 years who lived through that period under Labour!

    There’s a reason that Labour absolutely walked three General Elections and that’s because Blair, despite all his faults in latter years and Kinnock prior to him both tackled the militants and the loonies head on and put them in a locked box for a generation.

    It impossible to have any clue what the 70’s was like unless you were 10+ and lived through it, it was very tough and very scary for our parents and grandparents.

    Things are very awkward at the moment but on a scale of 10 compared to the 70’s we haven’t yet reach 2 in my opinion.
    The 70's was the last time we had a truly left wing government and what a mess it 'left' us in. I have these discussions with my kids and they dismiss it as history. IMO Churchill got it about right about those whom fail to learn from history.

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