O/T. To misquote Henry II...

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sorry, I'm beginning to act like DCFCA here.

You are male, over 65 and ABC1. Live in the shires, rather than London which has you in more of a Tory heartland.... So if you question the judgement of the party members on these grounds, you must surely also question your own?

The only difference between you and your prototypical Tory party member is the stance on Brexit. No surprises there then. Back to roots.

[ramAnag]

You have no case. If you want to influence the decision, take part in the vote by joining the party, just like all those other people you analyse (and, inferentially, despise) have done. It's your choice, nothing stopping you. Put your money where your mouth is. Make a difference.

But that would mean doing something instead of whining, wouldn't it?

Whining? How is pointing out a few facts, ‘whining’? If this is your best answer...you really haven’t got one at all have you?

As I remember things...a few years back you, and/or some of your ‘mates’, boasted about joining the Labour Party in order to screw it up.
I’m not sure whether you were serious, this would be under your previous Roger Ramjet guise, about actually joining yourself, but you were certainly serious about people you knew doing it.

Now...why would I join the Tory Party? I fundamentally disagree with at least 75% of their policies and yes, you’re right, I do despise them in their current manifestation...mind you...seeing as we’re talking about a Party that is about to be on its fourth leader in six years it would seem they’re not over keen on each other either.

I’ve given you some facts. Your frankly laughable answer is...why don’t you join and make a difference? Sorry GP...for the same reason that I don’t become an NFFC supporter, join the Countryside Alliance or the BNP. It’s that little thing called...integrity.

P.S. Sorry, only just seen #151. Too nonsensical to respond too I’m afraid but I’ll try. Of your claims I think one is correct. I’m over 65. I doubt very much that I’m in ABC1 and WTF has living in Derbyshire got to do with the BBC claim about most Tory Party members being based in London? I think the heat has got to you.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Lol

[Geoff Parkstone]

"Sorry, only just seen #151. Too nonsensical to respond too I’m afraid but I’ll try. Of your claims I think one is correct. I’m over 65. I doubt very much that I’m in ABC1 and WTF has living in Derbyshire got to do with the BBC claim about most Tory Party members being based in London? I think the heat has got to you."

You really need to research what ABC1 means then. Teachers, particularly senior ones as I suspect you were, are probably B. The next one down, C2, is "skilled manual"

46 of the 73 MPs in London are Labour, 20 are Conservative. Doesn't suggest the conservative parliamentary party is London-centric, but undoubtedly the shires are Torycentric

So you have the classic Tory voter profile: male, over 65, ABC1 and from Tory heartland. You'll fit right in - go on, cough up your £25 and have a vote.

[ramAnag]

"Sorry, only just seen #151. Too nonsensical to respond too I’m afraid but I’ll try. Of your claims I think one is correct. I’m over 65. I doubt very much that I’m in ABC1 and WTF has living in Derbyshire got to do with the BBC claim about most Tory Party members being based in London? I think the heat has got to you."

You really need to research what ABC1 means then. Teachers, particularly senior ones as I suspect you were, are probably B. The next one down, C2, is "skilled manual"

46 of the 73 MPs in London are Labour, 20 are Conservative. Doesn't suggest the conservative parliamentary party is London-centric, but undoubtedly the shires are Torycentric

So you have the classic Tory voter profile: male, over 65, ABC1 and from Tory heartland. You'll fit right in - go on, cough up your £25 and have a vote.

GP...as you know I was a ‘senior’ teacher. As you also know I retired from teaching over a decade ago.

No one has mentioned the distribution of Tory/Labour seats in London. The BBC’s claim was that almost 56% of the Tory Party membership live in London. When you consider how many other areas of the UK there are that represents a very significant majority.

I am male, over 65 and a retired senior professional. So what? You can make this all about me if you wish, although I don’t know why you would.

You’d perhaps be better addressing the original facts i.e...we have reached a stage in this country where our 3rd consecutive PM is about to be chosen by a small group of predominantly wealthy, elderly, London based, males who voted ‘Leave’.

If you, and the rest of the apparently reformed gang of three, think that is completely acceptable, that’s your opinion...defend it, but please don’t just resort to completely meaningless and personalised attack.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I have no worries with a political party, who was given an overwhelming mandate by the public at the last election, choosing their own leader. That it has happened several times of late could be a reflection on poor judgement, equally it could reflect on a party constantly re-assessing and adjusting itself which might be a positive. Either way, I am not a party member and frankly its not my business who they select, any more so than it is a Rams' fan's concern who Forest appoint as manager, to use your earlier example.

If I don't like the selected person, then I will not give the party my vote the next time round - in a few years time (not that I have done, nor that it would make the slightest difference given where I live, but that's a different story).

As was said above by Andy, I think, this is not a presidential election, its an election for a party leader. You may argue with some justification that BJ has made the last few years "all about him" - and this has been his strength and his downfall. The country had needed a charismatic leader to get through Brexit and Covid, so he may have seemed a bit presidential in approach, but now is the time for a PM who is not all about himself, but who is a calm, thinking and (yes) conservative figure to get through the fall out of Brexit and COVID - with a war thrown in. A leader with the support of both the political wing and the membership. That you don't think the voters are representative of what you want to see is just so much irrelevance. short of the entirety of the UK constitutional system being torn up and rewritten to satisfy your prejudices.

So yes, I will make it personal because you made it personal in the first place by observing that those making the decisions were not those who you thought were appropriate to do so. if the boot were on the other foot, would I go on about the excess influence of trade unions on the labour leadership? No, its the constitution of the parties and if the people don't like either party constitution, they should't vote for them at a general election.

Sort of comes back to my theory some while back about abolishing party politics

[MadAmster]

I am male, over 65 and a retired senior professional. So what? You can make this all about me if you wish, although I don’t know why you would.

You know those Rams on the various social media platforms baiting other L1 teams' fans with their constant we're bigger than you, we're gonna splash the cash and then walk the League and then reeling them in.........

[ramAnag]

Of course it’s your business. Who Forest decide will manage them is of no concern to you because ultimately it makes no difference to you. Who the Tories decide will be OUR next PM may have a great deal of impact upon you and it isn’t, imo, morally right to have this decision repeatedly reached by the same tiny minority.

I agree with your second paragraph. You and I are, unusually perhaps, in a very similar situation...which, contrary to your earlier astonishingly silly suggestion, is not a reason for joining the Conservative Party.

Why did the country ‘need a charismatic leader’ to get through Brexit and Covid? Brexit appears to have been built upon a pack of lies and I think most people took more notice of the likes of Chris Whitty (hardly Mr. Charisma but certainly Mr. Reliable) during the height of the pandemic. Charisma and sensible leadership are not necessarily remotely synonymous.
We are not actually ‘through’ either and what my personal preferences may or not be again have little to do with anything but it appears you just can’t resist and again resort to personal comment.

You’ve made it personal because I made it ‘personal in the first place’. Absolute nonsense. What have I said that is personal regarding yourself or anyone else?
My comments today, all made on the appropriate thread in the appropriate way, have simply asked the same totally objective question. Is it right that for the third time in recent years our PM is being chosen by the same small group of individuals who I believe have become laughingly known as the ‘selectorate’?

I did actually make a mistake earlier when I referred to 56% of this group living in London. That should have read ‘London and the SE’. I apologise, but the point remains the same...the majority of this ‘selectorate’ are based in the wealthiest part of the country. Far, far fewer come from the Midlands, the North, Wales or Scotland.

The make up of this group of ‘King makers’ is the central issue to what has been raised today You seem peculiarly unwilling or unable to address this particular question. I don’t know why, maybe you could clarify.

[swaledale]

rA, I don't see its much of an issue how the Conservatives elect their leader, yes they are hardly representative of the rest of the country, but thats kind of the point about them, yet millions vote them in, millions indeed who will in no way benefit from their policies and actions as a party of government. The fact is they have the electoral mandate and are able to put up whoever they wish as leader. The more useless the better really so they are cast into the electoral wilderness for at least a decade!

I'm just pissing myself how Badenoch claims she understands ordinary people because she had a Saturday/holiday job flipping burgers! I mean so did I and so did my kids do low paid service industry jobs when still at school./college. so ****ing what it doesn't mean I understand what its like to work in those jobs all ones life doe sit?

Anyway she's gone now, so obviously anti woke not attractive to MP's


In other news 1,800 Conservative members have requested that Johnsons name be on the the ballot so they can vote him back in as leader, its a bit early for Turkeys to vote for Christmas but its funny.

Personally I hope they vote Truss in as leader, dear god what a **** show that will be but Labour should walk the next election if they do.

[ramAnag]

rA, I don't see its much of an issue how the Conservatives elect their leader, yes they are hardly representative of the rest of the country, but thats kind of the point about them, yet millions vote them in, millions indeed who will in no way benefit from their policies and actions as a party of government. The fact is they have the electoral mandate and are able to put up whoever they wish as leader. The more useless the better really so they are cast into the electoral wilderness for at least a decade!

I'm just pissing myself how Badenoch claims she understands ordinary people because she had a Saturday/holiday job flipping burgers! I mean so did I and so did my kids do low paid service industry jobs when still at school./college. so ****ing what it doesn't mean I understand what its like to work in those jobs all ones life doe sit?

Anyway she's gone now, so obviously anti woke not attractive to MP's


In other news 1,800 Conservative members have requested that Johnsons name be on the the ballot so they can vote him back in as leader, its a bit early for Turkeys to vote for Christmas but its funny.

Personally I hope they vote Truss in as leader, dear god what a **** show that will be but Labour should walk the next election if they do.

Oh, has Badenoch gone now. Quelle surprise! Wasn’t predictable was it?