The Wokeness Thread

[Andy_Faber]

deleted

[MadAmster]

Fairness. I like that. Female sporters disagreed with Trans women partaking in female sport as they had had years of benefit from male levels of testosterone helping them to create muscle mass and greater bone density. The first ruling bodies have now decided that Trans women may compete in a new "open" class. Sounds fair enough, however, if it truly is "open" then male and female athletes could also compete in that class. Wouldn't it be fairer to create 2 new classes. One for trans women and one for Trans men? That way everybody would have an event in which they could compete against "equals".

It might be me just not having seen it but I believe there has been a lack of attention given to Trans men in this entire debate. Might this be that the only people put in a disadvantaged position are Trans men themselves?

[Trickytreesreds]

Fairness. I like that. Female sporters disagreed with Trans women partaking in female sport as they had had years of benefit from male levels of testosterone helping them to create muscle mass and greater bone density. The first ruling bodies have now decided that Trans women may compete in a new "open" class. Sounds fair enough, however, if it truly is "open" then male and female athletes could also compete in that class. Wouldn't it be fairer to create 2 new classes. One for trans women and one for Trans men? That way everybody would have an event in which they could compete against "equals".

It might be me just not having seen it but I believe there has been a lack of attention given to Trans men in this entire debate. Might this be that the only people put in a disadvantaged position are Trans men themselves?

Trans mens fights for the equality they seek, is at the expense of natural females rights and positions.
That is grossly unfair on the natural gendas

[MadAmster]

Trans mens fights for the equality they seek, is at the expense of natural females rights and positions.
That is grossly unfair on the natural gendas

Trans women are those born as men who transition to being a woman.

Trans men were born a woman and transition to being a man.

Apart from your mixing up of the two, I agree with you and it's why sports are now creating open events for trans women. Now for Trans men's events as well.

[swaledale]

Trans women are those born as men who transition to being a woman.

Trans men were born a woman and transition to being a man.

Apart from your mixing up of the two, I agree with you and it's why sports are now creating open events for trans women. Now for Trans men's events as well.

The whole issue of transgender is very complicated and unfortunately events have overtaken those that administer sport, which to be frank is often the way with other things as well.

But my take is that it needs a proper discussion, the evidence assessed and a way forward agreed with all concerned. It certainly seems unfair that the swimmer who was ****e as a man, 400 in the world or something, could suddenly become a top women swimmer.

What I do find odd and unacceptable is that a man or a woman for that matter can just self declare that they are a different gender. I mean i can call myself a wombat but that doesn't mean i am one!

But ignoring the situation and moaning about woke ideology isn't a solution and isn't any way of manging the situation.

[Ramshank72]

...Your English is rather poor for a native, though I do find that's the case with those of the gammon persuasion ... your more subtle

It's "you're" if you're abbreviating "you are", you make that mistake all the time. Just thought you should know

(This is meant light heartedly before anyone gets upset)

[swaledale]

It's "you're" if you're abbreviating "you are", you make that mistake all the time. Just thought you should know

(This is meant light heartedly before anyone gets upset)

Fair enough Guv! Its not a question of mistake, more how it comes out when typing, sometimes I can be arsed to corect other times I just don't bother.

[Trickytreesreds]

the crux of the debate about trans and woke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5ieIpml-M

[Geoff Parkstone]

How do you manage to pooh in cubes to retain the illusion, Swale?

[ramAnag]

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

I remember a time when this matter got no more complex than some slightly dubious East German and Russian athletes but surely the answer is found in common sense.

What separates male and females in virtually any sport you care to mention is simple strength. Hence those who can run fastest, jump highest, kick, hit or throw a ball hardest are male. That’s not a *exist point or me being judgemental about women’s sport... it’s just how it is. The ‘best’ athletes, cricketers, footballers, tennis players and golfers are all male.

Sport is almost unique in this respect. The male dominance aspect doesn’t (or shouldn’t) imo, translate to other areas of life where the only barriers to equality are cultural and remain in need of addressing.

However, as far as sport is concerned can we really cater equally for each and every minority and are not the ones who will really suffer those ‘natural females’ who might find themselves competing against trans gender females who possess ‘male’ strength? That can’t be right but the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.