Friday training

[forwardmagpie]

You tell me , is he as good in midfield as he is in defence? I have no idea.

I can only talk of what we have seen at Notts in the past, and it's not worked.

Mike Edwards is a classic example, very good defender laughable in midfield.

[the_anticlough]

Mike Edwards is a classic example, very good defender laughable in midfield.

Watching Thompson there under McParland was even worse.

I keep making the point - Palmer won Player of the Year playing the role everyone keeps talking about. Did he win it for his many goals, assists, penetrating lung-busting runs into the box? Of course not. He was in the engine room all season, has 10 goals in the 10 years of his career, and at 28 soon should be fully settling into the holding midfielder he is anyway.

It's nuts, some want a back 5, the mythical steel beast, Palmer who never scores or gets forwards (and a goalie I guess), leaving all the attacking and scoring responsibility on 3 players/positions. That'd be an absolute gift for the opposition's marking schemes. And we'd be bored to death - the novelty of a few tackles and yellow cards for our new 'hard man' would soon wear thin.

[laddo]

I think you are badly missing the point AC, nobody is denying he was rightly our player of the season, nor is anyone suggesting he's had a career of lunging busting runs into the box to score lots of goals.

Anybody who saw Notts last season would agree his position is predominantly deep lying central midfielder to what degree depends on how the game is going and how much control we do or don't have.

However none of this address the point that people are making , he didn't cover lots of ground, he's not physically strong winning more than his fair share of 50:50s and personal tussles and above all tackling is not one of his strengths. That's not his game

He's a great player at this level, as I said he was rightly the POTS and our most consistent player alongside Cameron IMO but he was part of the reason (with others) why our midfield unit was overrun at times, and definitely outmuscled

[jackal2]

I think you are badly missing the point AC, nobody is denying he was rightly our player of the season, nor is anyone suggesting he's had a career of lunging busting runs into the box to score lots of goals.

Anybody who saw Notts last season would agree his position is predominantly deep lying central midfielder to what degree depends on how the game is going and how much control we do or don't have.

However none of this address the point that people are making , he didn't cover lots of ground, he's not physically strong winning more than his fair share of 50:50s and personal tussles and above all tackling is not one of his strengths. That's not his game

He's a great player at this level, as I said he was rightly the POTS and our most consistent player alongside Cameron IMO but he was part of the reason (with others) why our midfield unit was overrun at times, and definitely outmuscled

Good points.

Palmer was our POTS but I think he could have been even more effective if he had the right sort of help alongside him. In Palmer we've got the guy who can pick a pass and tackle a bit, and we've got several attacking midfielders who can make runs and give him options for those passes. What we're currently lacking in any 3-man midfield formation (be it 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 or 5-3-2) is the 'enforcer' whose primary job is to provide the defensive screen and win the ball. That's not to say we should sign some clod-hopper who cannot pass for toffee, but as long as they can win possession and play short, accurate passes to more accomplished players around them, that's good enough.

[the_anticlough]

I think you are badly missing the point AC, nobody is denying he was rightly our player of the season, nor is anyone suggesting he's had a career of lunging busting runs into the box to score lots of goals.

Anybody who saw Notts last season would agree his position is predominantly deep lying central midfielder to what degree depends on how the game is going and how much control we do or don't have.

However none of this address the point that people are making , he didn't cover lots of ground, he's not physically strong winning more than his fair share of 50:50s and personal tussles and above all tackling is not one of his strengths. That's not his game

He's a great player at this level, as I said he was rightly the POTS and our most consistent player alongside Cameron IMO but he was part of the reason (with others) why our midfield unit was overrun at times, and definitely outmuscled

It isn't me who's missing the point. Some posters seem to be pretty innumerate.
At the pro level, football is a game of chess with the 10 outfield players. If you want to win games and chase promotion you can't be lining up with a Back 5 (the 'wing-backs' we have are full-backs with no real record of goals and assists) and 2 defensive midfielders. We'll be inviting teams onto us and allowing them into games and in our half, through sheer lack of numbers going forward, attacking threat in general.

Hopefully, we're not in the same situation as last year - assembling a squad for 3-5-2 without a clue about the personnel we need. If we added another defensive-mid next to Palmer and left the creative and scoring load to only 3, then we'd have screwed up yet again.

[durhampie]

It isn't me who's missing the point. Some posters seem to be pretty innumerate.
At the pro level, football is a game of chess with the 10 outfield players. If you want to win games and chase promotion you can't be lining up with a Back 5 (the 'wing-backs' we have are full-backs with no real record of goals and assists) and 2 defensive midfielders. We'll be inviting teams onto us and allowing them into games and in our half, through sheer lack of numbers going forward, attacking threat in general.

Hopefully, we're not in the same situation as last year - assembling a squad for 3-5-2 without a clue about the personnel we need. If we added another defensive-mid next to Palmer and left the creative and scoring load to only 3, then we'd have screwed up yet again.

When Don Masson played for Notts he very rarely moved out of the centre circle, and from that area he could pinpoint his passes to our forwards. He didn't need to tackle or head balls, he had the liked Mick Jones and Dennis Oaks doing the dirty work. Palmer needs to have a similar type of player to help him do what he is best at..

[optipez]

I think you are badly missing the point AC, nobody is denying he was rightly our player of the season, nor is anyone suggesting he's had a career of lunging busting runs into the box to score lots of goals.

Anybody who saw Notts last season would agree his position is predominantly deep lying central midfielder to what degree depends on how the game is going and how much control we do or don't have.

However none of this address the point that people are making , he didn't cover lots of ground, he's not physically strong winning more than his fair share of 50:50s and personal tussles and above all tackling is not one of his strengths. That's not his game

He's a great player at this level, as I said he was rightly the POTS and our most consistent player alongside Cameron IMO but he was part of the reason (with others) why our midfield unit was overrun at times, and definitely outmuscled

I don't think Palmer was part of the reason, it was the weakness around him. If our midfield had another Palmer I think we'd be fine. Always thought it was a shame Jake Reeves left as between them they could run all day and cover all the ground necessary.
It's not really about hard tackles most of the times but more about timely interceptions and reading the game to just nip in there first. Palmer was great at it last season.

[SaltySeaDog]

It isn't me who's missing the point. Some posters seem to be pretty innumerate.
At the pro level, football is a game of chess with the 10 outfield players. If you want to win games and chase promotion you can't be lining up with a Back 5 (the 'wing-backs' we have are full-backs with no real record of goals and assists) and 2 defensive midfielders. We'll be inviting teams onto us and allowing them into games and in our half, through sheer lack of numbers going forward, attacking threat in general.

Hopefully, we're not in the same situation as last year - assembling a squad for 3-5-2 without a clue about the personnel we need. If we added another defensive-mid next to Palmer and left the creative and scoring load to only 3, then we'd have screwed up yet again.

That's why i thought 4-2-3-1 was our best formation, it utilised our forward options in the best positions.

As the wing backs didn't contribute enough in regards to assists or goals I didn't think they were necessary really.

If we could have had that tackler next to Palmer, and toughen up the centre of the park a little, I think we would have been a lot more resilient.

[Killerkline]

We’re not playing with a back 5, certainly not this preseason. We have a back 3 and the wing backs are wide midfielders.

[laddo]

When Don Masson played for Notts he very rarely moved out of the centre circle, and from that area he could pinpoint his passes to our forwards. He didn't need to tackle or head balls, he had the liked Mick Jones and Dennis Oaks doing the dirty work. Palmer needs to have a similar type of player to help him do what he is best at..

Before my time but exactly my point. It's who is alongside Palmer due to is abilities and inabilities.

He doesn't help with our lack of physicality and/or ability to tackle. It's as simple as that. It's not his issue it's a midfield issue of which he is part of.

Last season away from home it was some times him, Francis, Roberts as part of the midfield. Who's winning a 50:50 or sticking a forceful foot in or shoulder barge out of that lot?

It's great to intercept opposition passes by being in the right areas and reading the game but when Ruben is your most physical presence in there you are going to run into problems against teams, and we did.

The SeaDog nails it for with this "If we could have had that tackler next to Palmer, and toughen up the centre of the park a little, I think we would have been a lot more resilient."