Knee taking … now only occasionally for prem league

[ragingpup]

#56

I know the list - I wrote post #56!

I wrote:

1. Creating a stronger awareness in the sporting public about racist abuse and actions experienced by black and other minority group players
2. Creating a stronger sense of community and support among those experiencing discrimination and their colleagues in the changing rooms and workplaces that hear of the experiences of colleagues and support
3. Creating a stronger sense of empowerment amongst those groups experiencing prejudice
4. Providing a forum/media platform for individual role models to share their life experiences (as done by Adama Traore today in response to the knee developments
5. It encourages other minority groups to relate their own lives to the experiences of the black and ethnic community in sport, raising the sense of not tolerating the abuse that black and ethnic players experience and how to come together in order to combat abuse

You said that these were not achievements, which is fair enough. I just asked why they aren't considered achievements in your opinion, as they look like that quite considerable achievements to me! And this was leaving out my #6 Raised the awareness of child sports fans of the importance of cultural inclusiveness in sports and society from their heroes and role models.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Anyone who thinks that a white player could unilaterally decide to stop "taking the knee" is living in Cloud-Cuckoo Land, they would be hounded out of the game.

But footballers are special 😆

Just a cursory glance at this board shows you how divided it is, some for, some against, some very much for, some very much against.

Why would footballers, managers and officials be any different?

They aren’t, they are just following the easy path when they take the knee.

[ragingpup]

I respect good black people, my family and myself have many black friends so I don’t say this lightly but enough is enough.

The point has been made with the ‘knee’ but I for one will no longer be applauding it at football games or elsewhere.

If you are a genuine nice human being you will go through life respecting your fellow human being whatever colour or ethnicity they may be.

Swansea City as a team have chosen this season not to take the knee, others should follow but, not forget to still show respect.

Fair points Brin and can't argue with anyone choosing not to applaud the gesture at any point, nor any player/team not taking the knee. It should always have been an individual choice from all players and whilst I hear that some fans think players are co-erced into it, and that is always a concern, my own experience of working in a multi-cultural workplace, especially with the outpouring of rage following the Floyd murder, there has been much more open discussion of the actual life experiences of black people and I think their work place colleagues are consequently much more empathic and oppositional themselves to discrimination. Hence I think teams show their collective support as a team, not as individuals following their own changing room discussions.

Great that Swansea have decided against the knee, and as always, respect to whatever personal/team choices are made as all such actions shoulf be constantly kept under review, especially when they could indeed become counter productive. Hopefully new authentic ways of keeping the problem in the public ete will be sought as it is still a substantial problem in my opinion.

[avondalemiller]

....so we might not see the Black Power raised fist then in the Premier? Was this a collective dressing room agreement? There wasn't any disscussion in the media, would it have been ok for a white player to do what Zaha did at Crystal Palace, would the white guy have got away with it as lightly as Zaha?

...on another note, i don't give a sh1te about who does and who doesn't, it means nothing anymore, Zaha was right.

[ragingpup]

....so we might not see the Black Power raised fist then in the Premier? Was this a collective dressing room agreement? There wasn't any disscussion in the media, would it have been ok for a white player to do what Zaha did at Crystal Palace, would the white guy have got away with it as lightly as Zaha?

...on another note, i don't give a sh1te about who does and who doesn't, it means nothing anymore, Zaha was right.

Zaha has his opinion, which is just as valid as the players who still want to take the knee. Anyone's opinion on not taking the knee is just as right as anyone who believes it still has a place. None are 'right' or 'wrong' and not sure why anyone would feel the need to feel so righteous one way or the other on this gesture. Imo

[Slimchance]

I know the list - I wrote post #56!

I wrote:

1. Creating a stronger awareness in the sporting public about racist abuse and actions experienced by black and other minority group players
2. Creating a stronger sense of community and support among those experiencing discrimination and their colleagues in the changing rooms and workplaces that hear of the experiences of colleagues and support
3. Creating a stronger sense of empowerment amongst those groups experiencing prejudice
4. Providing a forum/media platform for individual role models to share their life experiences (as done by Adama Traore today in response to the knee developments
5. It encourages other minority groups to relate their own lives to the experiences of the black and ethnic community in sport, raising the sense of not tolerating the abuse that black and ethnic players experience and how to come together in order to combat abuse

You said that these were not achievements, which is fair enough. I just asked why they aren't considered achievements in your opinion, as they look like that quite considerable achievements to me! And this was leaving out my #6 Raised the awareness of child sports fans of the importance of cultural inclusiveness in sports and society from their heroes and role models.

Collins English Dictionary achievement
1. something that has been accomplished by hard work,ability or heroism.
2. the condition of having been accomplished.

Your points above are talking points but not achievements.

An example would be, when we had a mass shooting we banned most guns. That was an achievement.
In America they have multiple mass shootings and are still talking about it. Not an achievement.

[John2]

Collins English Dictionary achievement
1. something that has been accomplished by hard work,ability or heroism.
2. the condition of having been accomplished.

Your points above are talking points but not achievements.

An example would be, when we had a mass shooting we banned most guns. That was an achievement.
In America they have multiple mass shootings and are still talking about it. Not an achievement.

Blimey, I thought I'd seen it all.

You've got confused about what opinions are. They're subjective things.

Dictionary definition Subjective
1. based on or influenced by personal feelings
"his views are highly subjective"

You can't use a dictionary to disprove someone's subjective opinions

[ragingpup]

Collins English Dictionary achievement
1. something that has been accomplished by hard work,ability or heroism.
2. the condition of having been accomplished.

Your points above are talking points but not achievements.

An example would be, when we had a mass shooting we banned most guns. That was an achievement.
In America they have multiple mass shootings and are still talking about it. Not an achievement.

Oh OK, you're right. It's only an achievement when there is legislation change as a direct result within the same week.

Out of interest, are you aware of how many years the suffragette movement were operating before women gained the same voting rights as men?

[Slimchance]

Oh OK, you're right. It's only an achievement when there is legislation change as a direct result within the same week.

Out of interest, are you aware of how many years the suffragette movement were operating before women gained the same voting rights as men?

Nice try but changing the subject will not wash.

So just list the top 5 achievements that taking the knee has accomplished.

[ragingpup]

Nice try but changing the subject will not wash.

So just list the top 5 achievements that taking the knee has accomplished.

It wasn't a change of subject. It's directly relevant and just there to note how long social movements often take to be felt in legislation. I think you know that.

I've already listed 6 which I and I think most people able to appreciate how social change works, consider to be achievements in having a significant social impact. If you are defining achievement as attaining a law change of certificate, too narrow for evolving social change and would have had you facing up to a suffragette, in the many years leading up to women achieving the vote with "Come on then darling, list 5 achievements to the suffragette movement. And then make me a sandwich"