Nationalisation.

[ramAnag]

I actually don't see the difference between tips and non contractual bonuses, except perhaps one of magnitude. Each tend to be accompanied by threat to withdraw services if not granted.

Do you tip in restaurants, and does this change if the bill already includes a mark up for serve automatically? What about taxi drivers, hairdressers etc?

I remember when I was a relief postie back in the day. Only did one or two weeks at Christmas, but got more in "Christmas boxes" in those two weeks than I did in wages. I suspect the regular postie's who had worked the other 50 weeks to generate these tips were not impressed.

I take your point that in your world recognition was "non financial", same is probably true in the NHS, but whilst both are large employers, I suspect they are in the minority as regards incentivisation patterns to remuneration.... especially if you throw in share option schemes which are now very prevalent.

Can’t remember the last time I was in a taxi but restaurants and hairdressers? I tip in restaurants only if the service isn’t included and depending on performance, which could mean anything from nowt to generous. I also tip because there is a general understanding that waiters and waitresses aren’t very well paid. Probably do better to just pay a fairer wage and do away with the expectation of tips...especially as they are often pooled.
Hairdressers...curiously perhaps I’ve had the same hairdresser for about thirty years and she now comes to my house because she makes more travelling than paying the salon ‘hire’ costs. I used to give her a £5 tip but it’s currently much more because of her obviously increased oncosts.
Anecdotally...we have an annual festival (‘Why Not’) about five miles from where I live. I was talking to the guy who provides the portaloos, or whatever they’re called, the other day. Reckons he’s had a lean time if he doesn’t pick up £1k in lost money at the end of each festival. Bonus!

On your second point...I honestly wasn’t being evasive. Just because I believe we were much better off in the EU than out of it doesn’t mean that I agree with all things EU anymore than supporting Labour against the current government means I agree with all things Labour.
If ‘French ownership of a British key industry was a very EU thing’ then it’s not something I agreed with but neither is it something that challenges my ‘Remain’ stance and, as I suspect you know, I don’t see any parallel with Tricky’s hypothetical Slovakian barista.

P.S. I’m often in the minority which isn’t a source of concern...but I’ll readily concede that I have no knowledge at all of remuneration schemes. I’d just like to see more of a ‘fair wages for all’ mentality. Of course some are going to earn more than others but we seem to have lost the plot on this one at the moment.

[Geoff Parkstone]

OK, so the dividends are higher per business year, but the fact remains that, one way or the other the lions share of that gets back into the pension funds for all of us, directly or indirectly. Also, a number of the water companies were never in public ownership - South Staffordshire (an ex client of mine) and SES (currently my water supplier) are examples.

So whilst franchising under WA 1983 and privatisation under WA 1989 created the big 10 water companies there were always a number of smaller privatised companies out there as well (I think around 15?) and they had been around since mid 19th century in one guise or another

SSW is now in American private equity hands

[Geoff Parkstone]

"I’d just like to see more of a ‘fair wages for all’ mentality. Of course some are going to earn more than others but we seem to have lost the plot on this one at the moment."

You might be surprised to hear I tend to agree with parts of that. My problem at the moment is that there are two types of people that get the lions share of the increases - (a) those in charge who can vote themselves high increases and (b) those who shout loudest. Those on minimum wage deserve more and need more but as a rule (eg in the massive, low paid, care sector) they have no voice; those such as train drivers, who I believe are on around 60,000 a year are going to be the ones that get most, not because they deserve more, but because they shout the loudest and can hold the country to ransom more effectively - see elsethread.

If we all are to get through the inflationary/energy cost of living crisis, then its people on middle to good incomes, such as those between (say) 50k and 100k that also have to "do their bit" and suck it up, as much as those on even higher still need to moderate demands and/or actually accept an increased layer of tax to pay for those on under (say) 20k a year.

Personally I would desilk the rapacious barristers and promote another tier of worthy lawyers who aspire to that "grade"

In essence those at the bottom should receive, those in the middle stay still and those at the top give. But as we can already see, those in the middle and top grounds aren't going to settle for that. Income will soar across the board - inflation will wipe out any real benefits of the increases - as its already doing - and those on fixed incomes will lose out all round

[Trickytreesreds]

Yep nationalisation.
Good system if managed well. Ours were a disaster in many ways. Usually because of Union abuse.
So the Tories decided to get rid, make them private and force a business culture in there.
Profit has taken over as the main driving force though and now it falls to bits in other ways.

The irony now is , that being an EU member allowed European giants to get their teeth into it, under the fair play EU rules.
So what is it please?
Nationalise and tell the EU members to get out?
Ban the EU private companies, in favour of UK companies only?

Both cost us the tax payers a lot of money and if you think our returns like the NHS are bad now, wait till we pay for that lot.
I saw this the other day.
The irony wasn't lost though.
https://twitter.com/Valhalla51/statu...44313055989761

[ramAnag]

"I’d just like to see more of a ‘fair wages for all’ mentality. Of course some are going to earn more than others but we seem to have lost the plot on this one at the moment."

You might be surprised to hear I tend to agree with parts of that. My problem at the moment is that there are two types of people that get the lions share of the increases - (a) those in charge who can vote themselves high increases and (b) those who shout loudest. Those on minimum wage deserve more and need more but as a rule (eg in the massive, low paid, care sector) they have no voice; those such as train drivers, who I believe are on around 60,000 a year are going to be the ones that get most, not because they deserve more, but because they shout the loudest and can hold the country to ransom more effectively - see elsethread.

If we all are to get through the inflationary/energy cost of living crisis, then its people on middle to good incomes, such as those between (say) 50k and 100k that also have to "do their bit" and suck it up, as much as those on even higher still need to moderate demands and/or actually accept an increased layer of tax to pay for those on under (say) 20k a year.

Personally I would desilk the rapacious barristers and promote another tier of worthy lawyers who aspire to that "grade"

In essence those at the bottom should receive, those in the middle stay still and those at the top give. But as we can already see, those in the middle and top grounds aren't going to settle for that. Income will soar across the board - inflation will wipe out any real benefits of the increases - as its already doing - and those on fixed incomes will lose out all round

Wow...GP’s been prescribing himself caring-egalitarian pills! I may not agree with 100% of that but, for what it’s worth, there is much of it that I do agree with. Constructive grounds for compromise and agreement at least and God only knows...the world/country needs some of that right now.

[MadAmster]

1st year legal aid bods get as little as £9k to £12k a year. They need a pay rise.

Train drivers? Yes, they do get the amount GP quoted, however, the vast majority of rail staff get nothing like that. Similar to the wage pilots get compared to other airline staff.

[swaledale]

"I similarly don’t really understand your ‘Remainer/Brexiteer’ reference."

I think you do, just don't like the answer!

When we were in EU we were "one economic entity" and nationality didn't matter - in employment, residence, trade, tarrifs etc and so to mobility of capital across member state borders. So eg French ownership of a British key industry was a very "EU thing" and part of what economically bound us together.

Yet you've gone very "little Englander" on this matter which is very inconsistent with your remain stance. Nothing the matter with that, but it's no different to Tricky not wanting to be served by a Slovakian barista in a coffee shop is it? 😊

I'll wade in and defend rA here. because feeing ownership and foreign investment has never ben a remain/leave issue or anything to do with the EU for that matter. (other than some companies operated here to gain access to the single market) Its more about bringing investment into the country finance projects whether they be 5G mobile phone networks or nuclear power stations. Though clearly the government have gone a little bit cool on Chinese investment lately!

However, allowing a free for all in the market and not controlling foreign ownership of strategic infrastructure is not desirable from a security point of view - not that these companies should have been privatised in any case.

Also the situation on the trains where other state national rail company's own or are shareholders in UK rail companies is distinctly odd. Another scandal is the ownership and asset stripping/debt loading of care homes by private equity firms based in some dubious offshore tax haven.

Or the millions of Russian money laundered through the London property market again using opaque trusts.

There is nothing wrong with foreign ownership, just what is owned, the ownership structure, the nature of the owners and how much tax payers money is being siphoned off to make vast profits.