is Gerrard our version of Southgate

[mondaze]

ok I admit I didn't watch Englands match last night, The prospect was too awful to contemplate! But I feel that England's failures have come from Southgate's inability to tactically accommodate maverick talents. he can only envision a style of football that is regimented into a scheme that he can control... Are you seeing a similarity here with our own management?
I am sure we, Aston Villa, and to some extent, England are being hobbled by the lack of flair in their management.
What I see is that the original advantage of playing out from the back, started 15 years ago, has now been countered by the tactics which negate the method. That being systematic pressing or man to man marking, blocking off the channels from the back. At the moment, nobody has taken on this out from the back mantra... We used to have a system which did counter this technique... playing quick insightful passing from keeper to a winger, bypassing the across the back nonsense.
Am I mad, or does this appear obvious to other fans?

[westcountryvillain]

Definitely some truth in what you're saying, although conversely there aren't too many mavericks out there and their unpredictable outcomes vs the hyperanalytical approach to player stats these days should in theory mean that a disciplined system should win out? What is left is only what cannot be fully controlled - bookings, sendings off, pens, free-kicks which tends to even out over a season, unless you're in the big 6.

[bongosdad]

I think the owners are waiting for Gerrards next loss to sack him and bring in Podgy

[Exiledvillan]

I don’t think that you’re mad, M. The Cruyff/Pep way of playing out from the back, married to the tiki-taki bollox, took the world by storm. English managers, led by the nose by their ‘puppeteer’ bosses at St Georges, eventually adopted this principle, 10 years too late.

The problem is, coaching badges are earned on the back of adopting Pep-ball, no matter the quality of the players at a club/country. So all the new (last 10 years), young managers will be schooled in the same mould. Very few different footballing styles among English coaches.

Then out of nowhere trots Kliperty at anfield, and blows the system out of the water, with pace and aggression. That system eventually gets compromised by an even higher press and more aggression.

No doubt in 10 years' time, the F.A. will clone a load of Klopps. Those of you still above ground in 10 years' time, will be moaning about a load of shiny-toothed German-speaking coaches. No doubt complaining about turning our game into a form of Basketball, you score, we score.

Football evolves, but The English Football Association doesn’t.

[bongosdad]

Im no wizz on tacticts and formations but what happened to the old 442 or 433. I remember under MON we when Bouma got injured he put Melberg at right back. Even when Bouma and Luke Young were playing they were hardly attacking and it was left for the pure wingers like Downing Young and Milner to provide the service for Carew/Heskey/Gabby. On big and one smaller for the long ball.
This new style confuses me and we last time we were good was under MON. But he gets called a one trick pony?

[Exiledvillan]

Most managers are considered one-trick ponies, Bongo. Counter-attacking teams, like your favourite managers', are fkd when they fall behind, and have to chase the game, or make the running.

The Villa have been poor in possession since before your man. Dare I say Gregory’s team were the last to be useful in possession? Definitely, the last Villa team that got me out of my seat, anyway.

[bongosdad]

Those were good times Excile. I enjoyed the Gregory days but would put Atkinson slighty ahead.

[freer]

Bongo’s myopic wistful recollection of the Wee fella’s trophy strewn stewardship which lamentably concluded with O’Neil tossing all his toys out of the pram

[Exiledvillan]

Agreed, BFR was an all-around class act, at the beginning. Turned a bit ‘Dictator Ron’ towards the end.

My playing hero, Brian Little, was quite successful, but not quite with the win rate or exhilarating football, as early BFR.

Managers then had the freedom to enforce their unique identities upon their teams. But as Mondaze stated in the OP, they are now all morphed into “Footbore”.

[westcountryvillain]

I thought we played great football under Brian Little when JG was his assistant, he built a very good team but as with the BFR and MON eras, & even going further back to the Saunders years - they are short lived at Villa.

Fergie was famously one game away from the sack and went on to dominate for a long time backed by the owners, perhaps we should be more patient?